Anglo saxon

[Father_Ted]

Alright! I'm Dutch and i like to know where the Dutch language came from. As far i know the Dutch language is anglo saxons fom origin. Right?

I'm really interested in this!

[InsaneApache]

nah mate Anglo-Saxon is English, Dutch is more like German.

[The Stranger]

well check the Talk yur own language thread in the frontroom...there U can talk dutch ;)

[Spongly]

To be accurate, the English and Dutch languages both have a common origin, and yes, lots of the Anglo-Saxons came from Holland originally, though they came from a big stretch of land covering much of northern Germany and Denmark as well, and also probably southern Scandinavia.

[Father_Ted]

To be accurate, the English and Dutch languages both have a common origin, and yes, lots of the Anglo-Saxons came from Holland originally, though they came from a big stretch of land covering much of northern Germany and Denmark as well, and also probably southern Scandinavia.

Indeed, that's what i mean. But than again there are people like InsaneApache who just don't know! The Northern language is quit alike in some sort of way. Not grammatical tho. (i hate the German language because of the grammatical rules. but then again some people would say that about the Dutch language)

And if it's alike why can't i read beowulf?

Father Ted

[Brutus]

Within the so-called "Indo-European languages" (to which most, but not all, European languages belong, as well as some Indian and Middle-Eastern languages like Sanskrit and Persian), you have the "Germanic Languages" (Besides the Romance languages, Celtic languages, Slavic languages, Baltic languages, etc.). Germanic languages are divided into 3 sub-groups: North-, West- and East-Germanic languages (East-Germanic languages, like Gothic, are now extinct. North-German languages include Danish, Norse, Swedish and Icelandic).

Finally, the modern West-Germanic languages are: German, Dutch, Frisian and English (Note: these are only official languages, so distinct dialects like Limburgish or Letzeburgish are not noted, though they are West-German as well. Flemish = Dutch, by the way.) Of these, Dutch is most closely related to German and (subsequently) to Frisian. English is most closely related to Frisian, though the history of English (with many Latin, Celtic, Danish, Norse and especially French influences) made it rather distinct.

Now, on to Dutch. Once, The Netherlands were inhabited by Frisians (north and west), Saxons (east) and Franks (south). Dutch is, simply said, more or less the result of the mixing of these (already closely related) languages. So saying Anglo-Saxon is more or less like Dutch is in a kind of way correct: If you try to read some Old-English you will see it much resembles (Old-)Dutch or German.

However, there of course still wasn't any 'real Dutch'. Before modern times, most local 'dialects' were so different that a Brabantine wouldn't have understood a Hollander and vice versa. However, with the integration of the Dutch 'Gewesten' (counties, duchies, bishoprics and lordships) in the 15th and 16th centuries more and more integration took place. It is said there were by then 5 more or less distinct Dutch 'Language groups' (excluding Frisian): Hollandish, Brabantish, Flemish, Limburgish and 'Eastern'. Of these, 'Eastern' was the most Saxon in origin, Brabantish, Flemish and Limburgish were more or less Frankish in origin whilst Hollandish was both Frankish and Frisian.

Eventually, after the Revolt and subsequent struggle from 'Spanish' King, the States-General ordered a new protestant and Dutch Bible to be made. This Bible was then composed so that it would contain a sort of Dutch that most people in the Republic would understand. It was therefore written in a combination of Hollandish and Brabantish (the biggest 'languages') with many 'Eastern' elements. That is more or less the origin of Modern Dutch. Of course, it took many years, mass-media and many (annoying) spelling corrections by official committees to get what we have now.

Just for fun: one of the oldest 'Dutch' sentences known is this:

"Hebben alla vogala nestas hagunnan, hinase hic anda tu, wat unbidan we nu" (12th century)

Try to translate it, if you want (you might know it already, it's quite famous).

[Father_Ted]

That's quit an interesting read, Brutus. Thanks

"Hebben alla vogala nestas hagunnan, hinase hic anda tu, wat unbidan we nu" (12th century)

Vogels. nest. samen? er? yeah, uhu, WTF?

[Brutus]

Hebban alla vogala nestas hagunnan, hinase hic anda tu, wat unbidan we nu

Literally:

"Hebben alle vogels nesten begonnen, behalve ik en jij, wat talmen we nu"

in English:

"All birds have started nests, except me and you, what are we waiting for"

[InsaneApache]

Of these, Dutch is most closely related to German and (subsequently) to Frisian. English is most closely related to Frisian, though the history of English (with many Latin, Celtic, Danish, Norse and especially French influences) made it rather distinct.

Although my post could be seen as flippant (which it was), it was, however essentially correct.

[VeroImperatoreDiRoma]

Beautiful post Brutus!

You should be able to converse in old english with someone speaking Frisian.
I read an article recently saying that with the emerging economies such as India and China speaking English as a global language,that the English spoken in England itself will become a minority dialect.
English and Dutch are both constantly evolving lingoes,Afrikaans is basically 300 year old dutch. I need to get out more.