Heavy Machine Gun Mod ;)

[morano]

Hello

I've been reading multiple treats on this forum ( which is great I must say! ) ,and one of them was "WWII MOD" or something like that...
Personally I think that is stupid idea to make such a mod based on RTW engine- I mean ,come on ... this engine is great ,as whole TW series ,but I think we can only ruin its atmosphere doing tanks,spaceships etc..so ,lets keep it real !

there is other side of this matter. I'm working on comic book which will be base to create a game ( maybe it will apear as a TW MOD first? to test 3D models and textures ? ). It will be set in no-time, on another planet, but there will be cavalry, swords , cities but also very strange devices similar to our modern weaponery ( machine guns, howizers, etc ) as well.

So I decided to test if it willbe possible to use TW engine to create a mod/game where cold steal apears along high-tech firearms.

Here are results:

1. 2400(10x240) footmen vs 3 "50 cal"



2.fist though: ancient/medieval/napoleonic massive formations wont work against machine guns in WWII MOD...unless someone create "snicking formation" or "sniper unit" to take down MG operator



3."50 cal" has opened fire ! at 100 meters range ....


4. next frame ...



5.and next one .



6. 4 seconds later... those 86 guys fleeing from battlefield are simply little smarter than their 2314 dead friends




this "battle" durration was only few seconds. about 75000 rounds has been released ( 3 MG x 50 K rounds each ,about 6000 bullets / second) ,they don't even used all their ammo.over 2000 men has died.
That makes me think again about puting MG's in the middle oldfashion battle poeatry...

let me know what do You think about this "experiment" ... know I will work on FLYING OBJECTS in TW...

morano

[Dhampir]

Sweet.

[Lanemerkel1]

Sweet.

you can say that again,

[Pewe]

Intresting... :)

[shifty157]

Nice work.

A tutorial file i wrote up a little while ago. I think itll help you do whatever you want. You can find it in the scriptorium.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=55912

[edyzmedieval]

Interesting mini mod....

[Pewe]

But I think a video of that battle would be nice, To get a better...perspective or what you may call it of that sweet slaughter.

[Lanemerkel1]

damn 2314 killed in 4 seconds? can i get this thing?

[GaugamelaTC]

wow please release that if possible for BI, it would funny to use now and again. Just for custom battles pleaaaaaase!! BTW that is fantastic, your skill is amazing, please release please please :)

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Remove the flame effect!

Sounds cool, though.

[morano]

here you go:

first: " descr_engines" file
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

type scorpion
culture all
class tower
variant large
projectile flaming_scorpion

engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton scorpion
engine_collision data/models_engine/Scorpion_very_low_lod.CAS
engine_model data/models_engine/scorpion.CAS, 10.0
engine_model data/models_engine/Scorpion_med_lod.CAS, 20.0
engine_model data/models_engine/Scorpion_low_lod.CAS, 40.0
engine_model data/models_engine/Scorpion_very_low_lod.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton scorpion_dying
engine_model data/models_engine/scorpion_dying_model.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_model_group dead
engine_model data/models_engine/scorpion_dead.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_shadow none

engine_radius 1
engine_length 2
engine_width 1.5
engine_height 1.5
engine_mass 2
engine_dock_dist 1.5
engine_mob_dist 4
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 2.5
fire_effect engine_fire_ballista_set

obstacle_shape drop
obstacle_x_radius 0.5
obstacle_y_radius 1.0

engine_spo

engine_push_point 0.0 -1.85
engine_station crank 0.0 -1.93

engine_spotfx models_engine/heliopolis_spotfx.cas
engine_health 1000
;engine_weapon ballista
;engine_armour siege tower

attack_stat 20, 2, flaming_scorpion, 100, 50000, siege_missile, blade, piercing
attack_stat_attr ap, bp

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 9
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 9
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 9
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, 20.0
missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, 40.0
missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, max
missile_pos 0.0 22 0.0
missile_radius 1
missile_height 2.5
missile_mass 7


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

some changes at "descr_projectile_new" file:


projectile flaming_scorpion

flaming scorpion
effect fiery_arrow_set
end_effect fiery_arrow_explosion_set
effect_offset 1.0
damage 5
damage_to_troops 6
radius 0
mass 3
accuracy_vs_units 0.001
fiery
min_angle -10
max_angle 10
velocity 1000
display aimed particle_trail
model data/models_missile/missile_scorpion_bolt_high.CAS, 40.0
model data/models_missile/missile_scorpion_bolt_med.CAS, 80.0
model data/models_missile/missile_scorpion_bolt_low.CAS, max

and that's it !

feel free to make any changes to improve effect (including MG model maybe)

cheers

Morano

[Lanemerkel1]

here you go:

first: " descr_engines" file
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

type scorpion
culture all
class tower
variant large
projectile flaming_scorpion

engine_model_group normal
engine_skeleton scorpion
engine_collision data/models_engine/Scorpion_very_low_lod.CAS
engine_model data/models_engine/scorpion.CAS, 10.0
engine_model data/models_engine/Scorpion_med_lod.CAS, 20.0
engine_model data/models_engine/Scorpion_low_lod.CAS, 40.0
engine_model data/models_engine/Scorpion_very_low_lod.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_model_group dying
engine_skeleton scorpion_dying
engine_model data/models_engine/scorpion_dying_model.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_model_group dead
engine_model data/models_engine/scorpion_dead.CAS, max
engine_platforms none

engine_shadow none

engine_radius 1
engine_length 2
engine_width 1.5
engine_height 1.5
engine_mass 2
engine_dock_dist 1.5
engine_mob_dist 4
engine_flammable true
engine_ignition 2.5
fire_effect engine_fire_ballista_set

obstacle_shape drop
obstacle_x_radius 0.5
obstacle_y_radius 1.0

engine_spo

engine_push_point 0.0 -1.85
engine_station crank 0.0 -1.93

engine_spotfx models_engine/heliopolis_spotfx.cas
engine_health 1000
;engine_weapon ballista
;engine_armour siege tower

attack_stat 20, 2, flaming_scorpion, 100, 50000, siege_missile, blade, piercing
attack_stat_attr ap, bp

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 6.4
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 9
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 9
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

arrow_generator 0 2 9
aim_dir 0.0 0.0 1.0
aim_arc 1.0
fire_interval 0.01

missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, 20.0
missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, 40.0
missile_model data/models_engine/Bolt_high.CAS, max
missile_pos 0.0 22 0.0
missile_radius 1
missile_height 2.5
missile_mass 7


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

some changes at "descr_projectile_new" file:


projectile flaming_scorpion

flaming scorpion
effect fiery_arrow_set
end_effect fiery_arrow_explosion_set
effect_offset 1.0
damage 5
damage_to_troops 6
radius 0
mass 3
accuracy_vs_units 0.001
fiery
min_angle -10
max_angle 10
velocity 1000
display aimed particle_trail
model data/models_missile/missile_scorpion_bolt_high.CAS, 40.0
model data/models_missile/missile_scorpion_bolt_med.CAS, 80.0
model data/models_missile/missile_scorpion_bolt_low.CAS, max

and that's it !

feel free to make any changes to improve effect (including MG model maybe)

cheers

Morano

this thing only needs to edit those two files?



just asking to be sure

[Reenk Roink]

I love these experiments.

[morano]

yes i did some changes in "unit desc stat" on roman scorpion ,too but it doesn't seams to be any diffrent,so lets keep it only on those two.

I think the main change is to use scorpion as a siege tower with arrow generators

i forgot to tell you this mod cause some mistakes:

1. when you bulid large siege towers ( heliopolis i think) you get our " MG's" instead. They are powerfull but you can't capture city with them :(

2. for some reason MG's are usless for elephants and cavalry ! i think that is because I set participle "against unit accuracy " to 0,005 - so MG's fireing only on people mouted on horses or elephants it is easy to fix...

[dclare4]

Lovely! Looks like a WW1 mod may be possible after all

Great find Morano!

de Clare

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Awsome! That's so cool man...

[dclare4]

Hi there Morano,

I tried editing the two files you mentioned but I kept getting a CTD. I have a feeling I might be editing the wrong entries - I should edit the scorpion and fire_scorpion right? I tried replacing the scorpion with the modifications posted here but it crashed. I must be doing something wrong somewhere... also when this runs it's going to affect the Scorpion Unit right?

Thanks very much,
Clare

[morano]

you must do some mistake but i don't know where. Tese are really only changes needed. I tested it on RTW:BI but it shouldn't do any difference.
try to be very carefull with those "arrow generators" these coordinates are somehow very important. it was runnig very good untill I pasted those generators into "scorpion desciption" then had some errors . after few corrections finally it works .
I can't help You in other way cause I am not that much good at scripting all I achieved was made but "tryies and mistakes" metod.

good luck

[Helgi]

Lovely! Looks like a WW1 mod may be possible after all

Great find Morano!

de Clare

A WW1 mod would be interesting, and possible; one could do the first couple years of the war; like a Guns of August Mod. Totally great Find though

now if someone can figure out flight, it would be fantastic.

[JHW]

think i've edited all the files ok but I get a problem. The scorpions ingame have no range as the little arrow symbol is red always and I cant order them to fire on anything (big cross when I move the cursor over).
Any ideas why this is happening?

[LorDBulA]

6000 rounds per second? I dont know what it is but most definetly its not a machinegun. MG-42 one of the best machineguns with incredible rate of fire could deliver 1200 rounds per MINUTE. And ofcourse this is only theoretical rate of fire. Nobady will fire 1200 rounds per minute. If you use long ammo belts 200 -300 bulets you would have to relode at least 4 times. Not to mention that you would have to replace barrles few times becouse they would be red hot. But on the other hand range should be much greater about 1 km would be good.

[HalfThere]

I've tried it, copying and pasting directly what you have posted. I'm using BI 1.6, and I'm getting CTD.

[Cesare diBorja]

QUOTE-6000 rounds per second? I dont know what it is but most definetly its not a machinegun. MG-42 one of the best machineguns with incredible rate of fire could deliver 1200 rounds per MINUTE. And ofcourse this is only theoretical rate of fire. Nobady will fire 1200 rounds per minute. If you use long ammo belts 200 -300 bulets you would have to relode at least 4 times. Not to mention that you would have to replace barrles few times becouse they would be red hot. But on the other hand range should be much greater about 1 km would be good.-UNUOTE

Modern miniguns fire anywhere from 2000-10000 rounds per minute. The new random fire boxes are firing higher rates than that and will be making battlefields appearances soon on the side of the US and its allies. AKA 'Metalstorm' projection and suppression weapons boxes.

diBorgia

[dclare4]

By the way, Moreno would you be interested in doing a spot of work for Zulu Total War? It's easy really, we'll supply the models and you supply the firepower. We'll be needing machine guns - Gatlings, Gardners, Nordenfeldts - and since you seem to have figured it out...

Cheers,
Harlechman (Clare)

[morano]

hi

seems to me I accidently started quite interesting discusion about modern weaponery :D

1. ABOUT CTDs : Sorry ... As I said , I'm to green to resolve all errors caused by my mod :( I have similar problems when installing other mods and got no idea what is wrong . I finally installed corectly MiddleEarth mod after 3 rd try.

Here are some guides which can help You:
a) change scorpion engine from "scorpion" to "siege tower " leave model as scorpion
b) use "arrow generators"
c) add more "fireworks" as flame effect on arrow , attack atr of bullet etc

after each step check if game runs correctly - don't go further if Your game doesn;t even accept using scorpion as a siege tower ,it will be harder to find where is a problem when you'll change too much at once.

2. ABOUT 6000 r/second - Yes I know that ! But I said it suppose to be simulation of my "world in comicbook" and there are such mchines- but don't worry, side holding this technology is same frighten using it as side standing on the other end of the barell. This "machine gun" has lot of minors
-it is difficult to transport because of their high weight
-short range
-fast usage of ammo
-low accuracy
-high usage of fuel ( very complicated system of engines ,coolers ,targeting and ammo transmission etc)
-very expensive materials used to produce main core of the gun
etc etc

the idea is rather use it as a psyhology weapon insted of very eficiency killing machine.Almost the same effect (cause fear) as in most of medieval guns. they made lots of smoke and noise but was nothing vs. casualties made by long bows f.ex.

3.ABOUT ZULU MOD - Thank You but .. .no :( too busy with my work ,to do anything else. Of course I can help You with advice in this subject but if I were on your place I wont be so sure of my knowledge :)
"heavy MG Mod " was my first modyfication of RTW and probably last ... as I said to much work . O yes, sorry I made one more mod before- It was 160 men unit fireing with ... flame boulders :D beautyfull view! but couldn't figure out how to make those boulders destructive to building , so they just made some "fireworks" over the city no harming it at all.

and... o yes

4. ABOUT SCORPIONS RANGE - You 've got red arrow cause they can't fire! all fire which they produce comes from "arrow generators" - the unit keeps acorpion model ,but it is not a scorpion anymore - it is a "siege tower " with dozens of arrow generators . only way to fire with it is to switch on "fire at will" icon. Once an enemy unit comes into range area they will fire automaticaly. If You want them to stop just switch off "fire at will" .

that where comes the whole idea from. I was sigeing a town , build some siege towers (heliopolis i think ) ,and then troops inside a town attacked me at the end of turn. I was attempt to use sige towers in this battle but when i saw enemy coming out of the main gate, I started full attack - accidently I switched sige tower to "fire at will " mode and they were almost at the walls . I was suprised how much casulaties they made with their "scorpions on board" -it was as a gift from heaven - remeber siege towers made to sige a town as cost less / free so it is good idea to make a few of them and just wait for counter attack from inside of city.and then I get an idea to use this fire power in normal unit.

I just add , that I 've beed trying to cancel soem time between each round of heavy onager , before. Change a "time delay" (at the end of stats of each weapon) cause no effect. finally I get faster rate of fire deleting some animations beetwen each round ( aprox. from 8 seconds to 1,5 seconds ).


that's all for now ,I 'll answer all further question if I only have some free time .

Morano

[dclare4]

Thanks very much Morano... will have another go at it and I'll make sure you're right up there with the rest of us in the credits of ZTW nonetheless for figuring it out in the first place. Yeah work can really get in the way of fun (LOL) but we'll be coming out with our playable first view demo battle pretty soon and I hope you enjoy that :) - though there won't actually be MGs implimented yet. By the way, we will have rocket batteries in our game so perhaps you could share the secret of your fireworks?

Thanks very much,
Harlechman (Clare)

[Legionaire]

I have difficulty in this mod. Can anybody send me his 2 files for my reference? I have used copy & paste, seem that the game always crash.

Many thanks