The Cumans in XL

[Martok]

Haruchai is a junior member, so I thought I'd put up his post here to see if anyone can help him out:

Greetings!

First off, let me say thank you for the wonderful discussions and ideas in these forums – I have learned more about the game by reading the posts here that I could hope to any other way.

But now it is time to break cover and ask some questions which I haven’t seen answered.

I bought MTW some time after release as my computer then could not handle it. I enjoyed playing very much – I started out with the Spanish, learning a good deal about game mechanics and winning a couple of times on the conquest/normal setting. However, I got distracted away and have only recently installed again – this time, on the advice of an acquaintance, with VI and the XL mod. I wanted a bit more of a challenge, and to indulge my interest in role-playing as well, so I chose the Cumans – I’ve always had an fascination with steppe peoples.

I had to dismiss many pre-conceptions from my earlier days, and have had enormous fun learning how to deal with such a disadvantaged faction. Endless stretched borders, aggressive neighbours, weak resources and steppe tactics – not to mention a preponderance for pervert heirs and no-star generals with no loyalty save to their own black scheming souls. I’ve now run two ‘training’ campaigns with them, both ending in annihilation between the Horde and Byzantium, after I was bled dry by the Russians and Novgorods (my spellchecker wants to replace them with No-goods, which is rather encouraging but sadly inaccurate) – both of whom ally very effectively with the Lithuanians, it seems.

Now that I understand the capabilities of my troops better, and have seen the terrain I have to fight for (who knew, for example, that Wallachia, a province I had long planned to simply give up if it was attacked in favour of protecting Moldavia from covetous Byzantines, was such a defensible valley?) I am about to start a new campaign. It will be on GA but I am not really playing to ‘win’ but to preserve the Cuman way of life and forge a nation amongst the fractious tribes – and if blessed by the Sky gods, find a governor who can count without removing his boots and prefers the tender ministrations of women to those of goats. I already hear the clangour of javelin on shield as my bashkorts salute the return of their Khan.

Before the off, may I ask if anyone has had experience of the Cumans, particularly in the tech tree/units available? I can’t find this information and since I have yet got much past 1250, I don’t know if bashkorts and heavy steppe cavalry is all I get. For example, Avar nobles are not available in Moldavia despite being a region specific unit, so I imagine the XL mod changes things significantly in this regard.

On terrain, I have found that the battleground changes depending on the direction of invasion – in Lesser Khazar, I made this fateful mistake. To begin with, Lithuanians invaded from the north and there were bridges, upon which they broke and died like ocean waves. Feeling secure, I left a bridge defence army there until the Byzantines came from the east, to find myself defending a flat open plain with two leafless shrubs and a startled rabbit as cover for my flanks. Is this true of all provinces and is the only way out to test each province with an army from each direction till one learns? I think one would know the terrain of one’s own provinces fairly well, so I can justify research on this.

Finally, I have read several posts that use the verb ‘to turtle’. I can’t work out what this means from the context (unless it means to hunker down and tech up) so I would appreciate an explanation.

I have read with interest the reports on people’s developing empires and would like to share my campaign with everyone. Should I put it into the existing Main Hall empire thread or start a new individual thread – what’s the expected etiquette for a report that will be worded like a history?

Thanks again for all the info – I finally know how to march my entire army in one direction without them all falling out of formation!

(Note: I myself haven't played the Cumans yet, which is why I wasn't able to give him any answers.)

[gunslinger]

I've never played XL, but I know that in vanilla MTW you can put your cursor over the borders between provinces to see what kind of terrain an invading army would face. I THINK you just right-click your province to bring up its information box and then move your cursor to the border in question. The terrain description should appear in the bottom of your province's information box unless that feature is not included in XL.

I believe you are correct about "turtle." It just means putting your nation in a defensive posture for awhile while you tech up or save some florins.

[Marquis de Said]

I have been able to build Avar Nobles while playing with the XL mod. You need an armourer and a horse breeder to do it if I remember correctly. I have built them at least with the Byzantines.

[ajaxfetish]

Gunslinger is correct on checking the borders (a nice feature of Wallachia and Moldavia is that for the Byzantines to attack from Bulgaria they have to cross the Danube to get to either one), and yes, turtling is setting up a defensive position and teching up, which I like for the roleplaying aspect of holding your own lands instead of just wildly expanding to take over the world.

The Cumans are a great faction, but limited as far as troops, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You're not going to get much in the way of new and improved troops later in the game, but what you start with is not bad, and it's low-tech so you can spam decent troops out of newly conquered provinces to carry your horde conquest further.

I'd recommend taking out one or two other factions, especially Kiev, fast, or else you'll get boxed in and out-teched fast, because you've got limited income available from just your starting provinces. I'm not a big fan of Bashkorts, but your Cuman heavies are basically Kats with low build requirements, Steppe heavy cavalry are one of the best multi-function units in the game (good archers, long-range and ap, fast, and powerful in melee as well), Cuman warriors are very good archers and decent in melee, and steppe cav is just ridiculously fast and very cheap and easy to build. You also have Wallachian Cav (basically steppe cav on steroids, but a little more expensive) and in early you can get Varangian Inf. from a few provinces, such as Kiev, which can make defending the castle in Khazar from the horde a little easier.

I use an army of 4 Cum Warriors backed by 3 Cuman heavies and a Cuman heavy general, with 2 steppe heavies on either flank backed by 2 steppe or wallachian cav each for flanking and/or pursuit. It's a very flexible army (though best of course on the open steppes) for skirmishing, envelopment, and direct melee, and every unit in it is relatively easy to tech up to. Another very nice feature of Cuman units is they tend to be much cheaper in upkeep than similar units in other factions. So to balance your limited unit options you have decent units that are both low tech and cheap to keep, so you can produce and maintain massive armies once you get a productive homeland established.

The horde are definitely your biggest problem (and if you're playing in high era all I can say is 'may your pagan gods smile on you.' Otherwise you're on your own!), but with a large enough empire (everything Kiev, Novgorod, Volgo-Bulgaria, and Lithuania started with) and a few waiting armies, incl. Var. Inf., they're manageable and a fun challenge.

Hope some of that helps, and if you're going to do a detailed and regularly updated history a new thread would probably be best. Anyway, welcome to the org Hurachi and good luck in your coming campaign!

Ajax

[ajaxfetish]

I have been able to build Avar Nobles while playing with the XL mod. You need an armourer and a horse breeder to do it if I remember correctly. I have built them at least with the Byzantines.

I'm not certain but I don't think the Cumans can build Avars. There's a number of almost-universal units (such as crossbows/arbs) that they can't build.

Ajax