Diplomacy with rebels

[Spendios]

How does it work ?

In my Pontos campaign I noticed that I'm at war will all the rebels
I sent a diplomat to negotiate with the Galatians but I can only bribe them, same things happened with Pergamon and all others rebels I contacted with diplomats, is that normal ?

[Byzantine Mercenary]

yes, in vannila Rome, but i think they are gonna have new diplomacy with rebels in EB

[Spendios]

yes, in vannila Rome, but i think they are gonna have new diplomacy with rebels in EB

That's my concern I'm playing EB and have no diplomatic options with rebels, I just want to know if it is normal

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Diplomacy and the Eleutheroi

In EB, you (as a faction) have more interesting ways of interacting with the Eleutheroi ("Free Peoples", aka "Rebels") than in RTW 1.2. These new features are primarily found in the interaction with "allied cities".

Some Eleutheroi cities have especially close ties with certain factions. These cities, when attacked by a second faction, will precipitate a war between the two factions. An oft-cited example is the city of Thermon. The sanctuary of Apollo is located there at Delphi, and if a faction like Epeiros or Makedonia attacks Thermon (an Eleutheroi city), they will cause a state of war between the attacker and the Koinon Hellenon (who has a very close relationship with Delphi). This does not cause one's status or relationship with the Eleutheroi as a whole to change.

In EB, you may also have encountered Eleutheroi diplomats. Their inclusion was not intentional on our part. They are another interesting obstacle to overcome (in that they may bribe your city away), but the one thing that a player should not do is make peace with them. This unfortunate situation arises from time to time: an Eleutheroi diplomat will approach with offers of peace, especially if you are attacking a nearby Eleutheroi city. Do not make the mistake of thinking that this means you would only be at peace with that one city if you agree. You instead would be at peace with all Eleutheroi, which is a situation that we would absolutely eliminate if we could.

Your faction should always be in a state of war with the Eleutheroi. It is a "bug" that sometimes they offer peace, and although we may find a way to stop the problem in the future, we may also have to simply turn these offers down when they occur.

Hope this helps clear some misconceptions about the Eleutheroi and their diplomats up!

[Crownsteler]

When I played as Carthage, Syracuse rebelled to Epirus, and the next turn I automaticly went to war with Syracuse, is this also due to similar scripting?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

When I played as Carthage, Syracuse rebelled to Epirus, and the next turn I automaticly went to war with Syracuse, is this also due to similar scripting?

That's not due to scripting. That's just RTW for you. Some provinces will rebel to certain factions. It seems as though Syracuse had already rebelled to Epeiros in your situation, so you didn't really go to war with Syrakousai, but with Epeiros.

We wanted to keep the provinces from rebelling (from one faction) to any faction if they didn't start off controlled by a faction, but that has proven to be an elusive task. The faction_creator is the way to determine this. But it also determines two other things in addition to "rebel to": it determines what type of culture the ambient, non-buildable buildings at the game's start will be (until the settlement is upgraded with a governor's building I believe). These are the houses in the city in 272BC, until it's upgraded. And it also determines (by culture) what the strat-map icon of the city (not the *icons*, but the image of the city itself on the map) will look like prior to upgrading with the next core level building.

So we have to take all those things into account when touching the faction_creator. For the Syrakousai, we decided to go with a faction creator of Epeiros (it was a close call between KH and Epeiros, but Epeiros had very recently held the province, so we went with them). We wanted to put "slave" for these provinces' faction creators so they wouldn't rebel to any faction, but that makes the city look roman, with roman houses, and also causes weird units to appear when it rebels.

[Crownsteler]

Well, it isn't a problem that Syracuse rebels and joins Epirus, I know how the game works (and aside from that, it would seem logical to me that they'd seek an outside power to help them against me), but what confused me was that when that happened I'm all of a sudden at war with Epirus (something I had rather avoided), but they didn't attack me, nor did they blockade a port of mine, nor did I attack them, so I was just wondering if you had scripted factions to go to war with eachother when a settlement revolts to another faction?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Well, unless a diplomacy message just wasn't shown, I don't know exactly what the cause was. I don't think there would be anything scripted to cause that intentionally. Once it kicked you out though, it may have perceived that within one turn you had troops in the city and also were hostile to it though. Maybe a scripter would be able to spot why the declaration of war happened so quickly.

[khelvan]

Actually, there may be a script in place regarding Syracuse - at least in the beginning, I believe if it is attacked, Rome will go to war over it. We'll have to get the scripters involved to answer this.

[tzinacan]

Ok

but i still didnt understand

i been wandered in EB with the romans, the baktrians, the phartians and the ptolemaoi, but i dont have an alliance with any city, i´m begginin to believe that i´ve misunderstanding something...

could you provide which independet city is allied with whom??

[Malrubius]

In our next patch, I'm adding something to the victory conditions trait that your faction leader has, that will describe which Eleutheroi cities your faction will go to war over.

It will show up when you hover your mouse over the "Koinon Hellenon Victory Conditions" trait, along with the victory conditions:

[LorDBulA]

Ammonion to Ptolemies
Chersonesos to Hellens.
Chersonsesos_Thraikia to Pontos
Halikarnassos to Ptolemies
Kallatis to Gattai
Kryne to Ptolemies and to Seleukids
Nikodemia to Pontos
Pantikapaion to Hellens
Sinope to Hellens
Thermon to Hellens
Trapezous to Hellens.

There is no script for Syracuse at the moment.

[tzinacan]

txs 4 the info, I see there is no one 4 the romans...
i think that messina -taken by italian mercenaries- was an allied city of carthage, then of rome, the carthaginian attack on Messina leaded to the 1st Punic war... maybe you have considered this already

by the way... I thought that one would be able to do alliances with any eleutheroi city that he wants... that`s correct are ya improving this 2 the future?

[Malrubius]

by the way... I thought that one would be able to do alliances with any eleutheroi city that he wants... that`s correct are ya improving this 2 the future?

If you ally/ceasefire with the Eleutheroi, it's with all of them, due to the limitations of the game engine. We consider this an exploit, unless you're the Casse at the game's start (they begin at peace with them).

This is just a beta, so we're adding more scripting features all the time. If a faction extending its protection to a free city is supported by history, it might be encouraged through scripting.

[Warlord 11]

Is it possible that when an Independent City is besieged near you (or the AI) your adviser asks you if you want to protect it. If you say yes, and you defeat the besieging army in battle, the city becomes yours with the level four government level (ally). I don't know what is possible with scripting, so this probably won't work, but I thought I suggest it anyway. It would be cool if it worked.

[tzinacan]

Ammonion to Ptolemies

Im playing as ptolemies now
and ammonion its in war with me
how this is supposed to work?
if somebody attacks ammonion will be automatically in war with me?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

No, Ammonion is in the Ptolemies' sphere of influence. The Ptolemies will get pissed off and declare war on anyone else who dares attack the Ammonion.

This is only in effect while it's still rebel though. If you as Ptolemies take the Ammonion, then the whole thing quietly goes away and it's just a regular ptolemaic possession.

[tzinacan]

This is only in effect while it's still rebel though. If you as Ptolemies take the Ammonion, then the whole thing quietly goes away and it's just a regular ptolemaic possession.

So, its not that you are allied or keep diplomacy with'em, only the IA cans in someway, I thougth it was like you be able to make alliances with any city, in the other hand i think it would be like to set each eleutheroi as a factions so lets forget it from now on.

By the way, I think that you should ad some important ties between cities as messina in sicily or sagunto in spain with the romans, those both cities boostered 1st and 2nd Punic Wars I think

Anyway, a great mod, I got to do my best managment-commanding dialy to