damn pope

[Lanemerkel1]

just excommunicated me (the British) for defending against a french invasion



I just conquered france and Aragon and "took care" of the pope

[Cowhead418]

I feel the same way. In my Hungarian campaign I'm fighting the HRE (who were excommunicated) when suddenly the pope died so their excommunication was voided. The next turn the new pope approaches me and scolds me for attacking a fellow Catholic. I would dispose of him but I want to Crusade.

[Lanemerkel1]

I feel the same way. In my Hungarian campaign I'm fighting the HRE (who were excommunicated) when suddenly the pope died so their excommunication was voided. The next turn the new pope approaches me and scolds me for attacking a fellow Catholic. I would dispose of him but I want to Crusade.

kill him, you can still crusade afterwards.


my problem is by conquering france and aragon I put myself in a delimma


I either have tow expand South and east or just East

the only problem is the HRE and Spain is stopping me.....and I'm allied to both of them and they both have bigger armies than me.


but spain is smaller militarily so should I take spain out and then the muslim and orthodox factions on a southern slingshot or should I burrow through and concrete my dominance as a catholic faction? by slingshotting around south through orthodox and muslim factions I can get to the real treasure provinces quicker and I won't crusaded or excommed again, plus I could then use the "Surround and Suppress" technique instead of the "Devide and Drive" Technique against the other catholics


I would be getting rid of probably the strongest faction I've seen in SP (Elmoheads) and the pope would effectivley be my final target

[Don Corleone]

The Pope doesn't excommunicate you for defending against an invasion. He WILL excommunicate you for relieving a garrison that's holed up in a castle that's being beseiged. If you noticed, when you let the French in, the province turned blue on the map. Everything but the castle was owned by the French that turn. The reason I bring that up is if you're playing to never be excommunicated, you must never lose the land war. Holing up in the castle isn't an option, as the pope will excommunicate you for relieving a siege. I'm not certain how he views if it if just your garrisoned troops sally.

[NodachiSam]

I guess you should take the opportunity to do some cursading to weaken their armies and also to gain some land.

[Lanemerkel1]

I'm really pissed at the pope, I was effectivley retaliating, but why didn't he excommunicate the franch? their catholic! they attacked me!

[Lanemerkel1]

The Pope doesn't excommunicate you for defending against an invasion. He WILL excommunicate you for relieving a garrison that's holed up in a castle that's being beseiged. If you noticed, when you let the French in, the province turned blue on the map. Everything but the castle was owned by the French that turn. The reason I bring that up is if you're playing to never be excommunicated, you must never lose the land war. Holing up in the castle isn't an option, as the pope will excommunicate you for relieving a siege. I'm not certain how he views if it if just your garrisoned troops sally.

I didn't lose the land


he still excommed me

[Lanemerkel1]

I have decided that if I'm going to invaded any catholic faction I need to have enough forces to blitz and conquer them in 2 turns, otherwise the pope will sit on his holy rear end in rome and order everybody to attack me.


I'm sorry mister pope but you can't excommunicate me from god, only god can do that.

[Don Corleone]

I didn't lose the land


he still excommed me

You're saying France invaded one of your provinces and that very turn, after you had beaten the French back, the Pope excommunicated you? I've never heard of that happening.

[Don Corleone]

Oh, and btw, the Pope didn't excommunicate the French because they must be smaller than you. He only excommunicates people who pick on the underdog (invade somebody with fewer provinces then them) and he gives a warning first, saying you have 2 years to knock it off. If you had been warned within the past 10 years, and you started an offensive action against the French, then yeah, you would get excommunicated (no 2nd warning).

[Ash]

I don't know any better then to get excommunicated by the pope as the English at one point or another.

If you're aggressive you're bound to fight the HRE, the French, the Aragonese and the Spanish. Good chance for excommuncation I reckon.

[Lanemerkel1]

I feel the same way. In my Hungarian campaign I'm fighting the HRE (who were excommunicated) when suddenly the pope died so their excommunication was voided. The next turn the new pope approaches me and scolds me for attacking a fellow Catholic. I would dispose of him but I want to Crusade.

you notice that the pope always decides to die at the worst possible time eh?

[Ciaran]

Oh, he´s generally being inconvenient. It must be part of his job description. If I need him to leave this world he won´t, no matter what, he´s sadly resistant to my assasins. The only other option would be the good, old-fashioned full-out war, but that´s a risky thing, he might get away from the battlefield alive. And even if not, then I´m at war with Papacy and usually I´ve got already more wars going on than I need, want or wish for.

[Ludens]

If I need him to leave this world he won´t, no matter what, he´s sadly resistant to my assasins. The only other option would be the good, old-fashioned full-out war, but that´s a risky thing, he might get away from the battlefield alive.

Popes are not that resistent to assassins: they tend to have few command stars. A five star assassin will usually do the trick. However, the ultimate delight in Pope-slaying is to use the Pope's own men against him. After all, nobody expects the...

[Marquis de Said]

Yeah, train up a grand inquisitor to five or six stars on your own men and enemy generals and then send him after the Pope. I've succeeded in frying a Pope once, which had me giggling for about 5 minutes.

[Lanemerkel1]

Yeah, train up a grand inquisitor to five or six stars on your own men and enemy generals and then send him after the Pope. I've succeeded in frying a Pope once, which had me giggling for about 5 minutes.

reading what you posted had me rolling for ten

[elbasto]

Popes are not that resistent to assassins: they tend to have few command stars. A five star assassin will usually do the trick. However, the ultimate delight in Pope-slaying is to use the Pope's own men against him. After all, nobody expects the...

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

[Lanemerkel1]

no one has even given me an idea on weather to blitz Spain and conquer the Orthodox ad the Muslims first or to Blitz HRE and establish my dominance as a catholic faction yet :(


oh well I guess I'm on my own

[Marquis de Said]

no one has even given me an idea on weather to blitz Spain and conquer the Orthodox ad the Muslims first or to Blitz HRE and establish my dominance as a catholic faction yet :(


oh well I guess I'm on my own

Now, now, don't despair.

Here's what I would do: Capture Navarre and Aragon and garrison them with solid defensive armies. Both provinces, if attacked from the Iberian peninsula, will give you either hills or mountains to defend. Have lots of archers to counter those annoying jinettes. Let the Spanish and Almohads slug it out amongst themselves and help out the faction that's getting defeated in order to keep a constant balance of power and war in Spain.

Once you've secured your southern border, attack the Germans in Provence, Burgundy and Lorraine. That will give you a four province line of defence (along with Flanders or Friesland) against the Germans. If you hit the HRE fast enough, they might go into civil war. You might want to capture Switzerland to tech up to Swiss Halbs and Pikemen. The German front will be tricky, because it's wide open and eventually you'll have to tangle with the Pope either by fighting him or by getting ex-comumunicated. But you can actually move your entire front by a province when you attack from IDF, Toulouse and Flanders simultaneously.

[Ciaran]

Popes are not that resistent to assassins: they tend to have few command stars. A five star assassin will usually do the trick. However, the ultimate delight in Pope-slaying is to use the Pope's own men against him. After all, nobody expects the...

Probably, but I´m crap at agent-training. For assasins you could always use the numerous diplomats, but inquisitors? I´ve tried doing some burning around, but as soon as the targets were what you could call "important" or "desirable" the blasted barbequers always fell for the lies of the barbequees-to-be and let them go, thus ever training up. Then again, maybe I was just too lazy.

[Ludens]

Probably, but I´m crap at agent-training. For assasins you could always use the numerous diplomats, but inquisitors? I´ve tried doing some burning around, but as soon as the targets were what you could call "important" or "desirable" the blasted barbequers always fell for the lies of the barbequees-to-be and let them go, thus ever training up.

First, ordinary inquisitors are not good enough, you need grand inquisitors. Secondly, let the inquisitor increase the zeal of a province for a few turns before starting his trails: this way the general populace will be a lot less inclined to turn a blind eye to your target's impiety. Thirdly, remove any bishops and cardinals, they slow inquisitors down. Fourthly, though this is not exactly necessary but can be useful sometimes, have a spy reveal the target's hidden vices. With some luck, your target has... unreligious urges, which will lower his piety. Fiftly, practice your inquisitors on low-level targets, like a unit of peasants or something. They don't even need to be enemy peasants. Inquisitors need some experience before locking horns with an important target. Grand inquisitors probably require more skilled targets to get their first few stars, but the principle is the same. Lastly, you need to keep at it. Repeated inquisitions will make the target act more pious, but usually reduce his faith, leaving him open to heretic or atheist thoughts. As soon as this happens, your inquisitor will have a field day.

[Alexios]

Oh, and btw, the Pope didn't excommunicate the French because they must be smaller than you. He only excommunicates people who pick on the underdog (invade somebody with fewer provinces then them) and he gives a warning first, saying you have 2 years to knock it off. If you had been warned within the past 10 years, and you started an offensive action against the French, then yeah, you would get excommunicated (no 2nd warning).

I'm playing a Catholic faction for the first time (the Brits, in Early, on Hard) and I'm experiencing the same kind of unfair treatment from the Pope.

I was playing nice - teching up (or farming up, so to speak) to improve my finances, when those dasdardly Frenchmen attacked me... and not just in one province, but in three!! They were obviously trying to run me off the map, so I retaliated and took one of their provinces. Right after that, I get the infamous "you have two years to draw back your forces" and "ten years to make peace" blabber from the Pope almighty.

So on my next move, I moved one of my emissaries over to try and make peace with the French. The response was: If I want to propose peace, then I should "move my forces from their borders." Then they proceeded to attack me again, this time in two other provinces. Once again, I successfully fended off the attacks.

But now I'm left wondering, since I'm the one that's been warned by the Pope, if I retaliate and take another French province, will I get ex-communicated? I think I will, although it's totally unfair, since I'm not the actual aggressor. Also, when I was warned the first time, should I have moved my forces out of the French province I had just conquered? If so, sounds kinda crazy. How in the heck am I suppose to expand my borders if I can't take advantage of an overly-aggressive neighbor?!

[Geezer57]

But now I'm left wondering, since I'm the one that's been warned by the Pope, if I retaliate and take another French province, will I get ex-communicated? I think I will, although it's totally unfair, since I'm not the actual aggressor. Also, when I was warned the first time, should I have moved my forces out of the French province I had just conquered? If so, sounds kinda crazy. How in the heck am I suppose to expand my borders if I can't take advantage of an overly-aggressive neighbor?!

You will get excommed if you attack the French in the next 10+ years (2 years warning +10). You can defend sucessfully all you want without problem, just don't relieve any besieged provinces where you retreated into the castle.

After your first warning, you should have (if possible) assaulted any French garrisons you had under siege. If sucessful, you'd have been 100% in control of that province - it wouldn't have been "French" anymore, and you wouldn't hve been subject to the Papal edict. Try never to retreat due to the Pope - just learn to work around him.

One trick to try next time: before venturing on an expansionist campaign, first attack a Catholic faction you're not really all that interested in, and draw the Papal warning. After about two years, you have ten years to attack the faction you were really after - the Pope can only keep track of one warning at a time. So as long as your first warning is in effect, you won't draw another one no matter what you do.

[Lanemerkel1]

I just started playing the Danes

they are AWESOME

it's been 13 turns and I already own the northern 1/3rd of the map

[Roark]

Do you have Viking Invasion installed?

The Danes are my second favourite faction. Viking infantry and Huscarles dominate! The victory music is wicked too...

[Lanemerkel1]

Do you have Viking Invasion installed?

The Danes are my second favourite faction. Viking infantry and Huscarles dominate! The victory music is wicked too...

yea I have VI


with the expansion installed their Infantry corps is SICK

[Alexios]

One trick to try next time: before venturing on an expansionist campaign, first attack a Catholic faction you're not really all that interested in, and draw the Papal warning. After about two years, you have ten years to attack the faction you were really after - the Pope can only keep track of one warning at a time. So as long as your first warning is in effect, you won't draw another one no matter what you do.

Hey Geezer -

So let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. Do you mean if I attack someone OTHER than the French, I won't get ex-commed? Because I really don't care about the French. I really want to fight my way through the Spaniards, so I can get to Morroco. Once in Morroco, I can start fighting my way east and expanding my empire by taking terroritories away from the Egyptians. They're Islamic, so of course, the Pope won't give a rat's rump if I'm beating up on them. My only difficulty in pursuing this strategy is figuring how to get through the Spanish without drawing fire from you-know-who.

[Ciaran]

Precisely. The pope, despite his high-and-mighty attitude, is actually either a total moron or incredibly lazy, he can track only one excommunication warning at the time. That is, if you´re warned not to attack the French all other catholic actions are free game for the next ten years. So, for the next go-round, best choose some faction that´s weak and unlikely to do much harm to you. That one you attack, wait for the papal warning and then you go after your real target. Just keep track of the years (it´s really a shame there´s no way to look up when you´ve been warned. I got excommed more than once when I resumed a saved game after some days ), you don´t want to be engaged in battles or sieges when the ten year period against your decoy is up. Warnings only affect catholic nations, as far as the pope´s concerned you can make war on as many infidels (that includes the orthodox, too) as you wish, he won´t mind.

[ajaxfetish]

IIRC, you only get warned if you have at least twice as many provinces as the faction you invade (same for players or AI), so if you're only slightly bigger than your victim you're still safe, at least for awhile. Also, if you want to invade and you've already been warned, check your king's age and the Pope's. If either of them are close to their deathbed, it may be worth attacking anyway, and taking the temporary excommunication. As soon as either of those two die the ban will be lifted.

Also, if you follow Marquis' advice on expanding into Germany, remember that there's a river between Toulouse and Provence and be prepared to win a bridge battle.

Ajax

[Alexios]

Okay, where do I actually find the Pope? I know he lurks somewhere in the Papal states, but how does MTW represent him? Is he represented like an emperor and positioned with his own military unit, just like any other nation's leader would be? Also, would you happen to know what the average life expectancy of the Pope is in MTW? I'm considering launching an all out offensive against one of my Catholic adversaries (the Germans and Spanish look like they're getting too big for their britches), but need some estimate as to how long it will be before the old codger croaks and I'm no longer ex-commed.

(I apologize for the stupid questions here, but this is the first time I've ever played as a Catholic faction and the first time I've ever had to deal with the Pope.)