damn pope

[Geezer57]

But now I'm left wondering, since I'm the one that's been warned by the Pope, if I retaliate and take another French province, will I get ex-communicated? I think I will, although it's totally unfair, since I'm not the actual aggressor. Also, when I was warned the first time, should I have moved my forces out of the French province I had just conquered? If so, sounds kinda crazy. How in the heck am I suppose to expand my borders if I can't take advantage of an overly-aggressive neighbor?!

You will get excommed if you attack the French in the next 10+ years (2 years warning +10). You can defend sucessfully all you want without problem, just don't relieve any besieged provinces where you retreated into the castle.

After your first warning, you should have (if possible) assaulted any French garrisons you had under siege. If sucessful, you'd have been 100% in control of that province - it wouldn't have been "French" anymore, and you wouldn't hve been subject to the Papal edict. Try never to retreat due to the Pope - just learn to work around him.

One trick to try next time: before venturing on an expansionist campaign, first attack a Catholic faction you're not really all that interested in, and draw the Papal warning. After about two years, you have ten years to attack the faction you were really after - the Pope can only keep track of one warning at a time. So as long as your first warning is in effect, you won't draw another one no matter what you do.

[Lanemerkel1]

I just started playing the Danes

they are AWESOME

it's been 13 turns and I already own the northern 1/3rd of the map

[Roark]

Do you have Viking Invasion installed?

The Danes are my second favourite faction. Viking infantry and Huscarles dominate! The victory music is wicked too...

[Lanemerkel1]

Do you have Viking Invasion installed?

The Danes are my second favourite faction. Viking infantry and Huscarles dominate! The victory music is wicked too...

yea I have VI


with the expansion installed their Infantry corps is SICK

[matteus the inbred]

The victory music is wicked too...

yeah, i love that!! i sit there going 'raah' at the appropriate moments...

[Loucipher]

Oh yeah... the Pope. Pitiful and perfidious excuse of a hillbilly vicar, damn his sanctimonious ass!
Come to think of it, there would be virtually no politics in MTW (except making alliances and royal marriages) if the Papacy weren't that politically active. The constant nagging of the Pope gives just a little idea of what other factions could do if they were given similar powers.

One trick to try next time: before venturing on an expansionist campaign, first attack a Catholic faction you're not really all that interested in, and draw the Papal warning. After about two years, you have ten years to attack the faction you were really after - the Pope can only keep track of one warning at a time. So as long as your first warning is in effect, you won't draw another one no matter what you do.

I have used this trick myself on more than one occassion. A minor conflict with someone such as the Aragonese or Hungary can be a perfect cover for a major assault on a big player such as the French or HRE

Okay, where do I actually find the Pope? I know he lurks somewhere in the Papal states, but how does MTW represent him? Is he represented like an emperor and positioned with his own military unit, just like any other nation's leader would be? Also, would you happen to know what the average life expectancy of the Pope is in MTW?

Papacy is a Catholic faction (their map colour is eggshell yellow, as opposed to the sun yellow colour of the Egyptians). The Pope is its leader and is represented by a leader army stack. His bodyguard unit is, as with any Catholic faction, a Royal Knights retinue of standard size (default 21, including His Sanctimonious Turdiness). Not surprisingly, he has all the traits: Influence, Piety, Dread, Command and Acumen, plus a V&V or two in some cases.
(SIDENOTE:

Yeah, train up a grand inquisitor to five or six stars on your own men and enemy generals and then send him after the Pope. I've succeeded in frying a Pope once, which had me giggling for about 5 minutes.

has anyone else found it amusing that sometimes Popes are downright heretics with 0 Piety? I once saw one of these... made me laugh my throat out 0 Piety... some Pope we have here... I am yet to succeed in burning a ruler with a GI, but I have managed to burn a Polish heir with my Aragon standard Inquisitor with 6 Valour! Fear the Spanish Inquisitors )
The life expectancy of the Pope is exactly the same as that of any other ruler. Before the patch - 56 years before natural death, or earlier by the sword or other mishap After the patch, somewhere around the sixties, though I saw a Pope once who was 71 years old and still alive! He had luckily passed away soon thereafter, so I guess he didn't make it until 75 years

Popes are not that resistent to assassins: they tend to have few command stars. A five star assassin will usually do the trick.

True said, I have managed to kill the King of France in my first MTW Campaign with my 5-star assassin, sent in just for the heck of it He had a heir, so it was a futile exercise, but at least the "daggerboy", as I call them killers, got away and learned something in the process

[Alexios]

One trick to try next time: before venturing on an expansionist campaign, first attack a Catholic faction you're not really all that interested in, and draw the Papal warning. After about two years, you have ten years to attack the faction you were really after - the Pope can only keep track of one warning at a time. So as long as your first warning is in effect, you won't draw another one no matter what you do.

Hey Geezer -

So let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. Do you mean if I attack someone OTHER than the French, I won't get ex-commed? Because I really don't care about the French. I really want to fight my way through the Spaniards, so I can get to Morroco. Once in Morroco, I can start fighting my way east and expanding my empire by taking terroritories away from the Egyptians. They're Islamic, so of course, the Pope won't give a rat's rump if I'm beating up on them. My only difficulty in pursuing this strategy is figuring how to get through the Spanish without drawing fire from you-know-who.

[Ciaran]

Precisely. The pope, despite his high-and-mighty attitude, is actually either a total moron or incredibly lazy, he can track only one excommunication warning at the time. That is, if you´re warned not to attack the French all other catholic actions are free game for the next ten years. So, for the next go-round, best choose some faction that´s weak and unlikely to do much harm to you. That one you attack, wait for the papal warning and then you go after your real target. Just keep track of the years (it´s really a shame there´s no way to look up when you´ve been warned. I got excommed more than once when I resumed a saved game after some days ), you don´t want to be engaged in battles or sieges when the ten year period against your decoy is up. Warnings only affect catholic nations, as far as the pope´s concerned you can make war on as many infidels (that includes the orthodox, too) as you wish, he won´t mind.

[ajaxfetish]

IIRC, you only get warned if you have at least twice as many provinces as the faction you invade (same for players or AI), so if you're only slightly bigger than your victim you're still safe, at least for awhile. Also, if you want to invade and you've already been warned, check your king's age and the Pope's. If either of them are close to their deathbed, it may be worth attacking anyway, and taking the temporary excommunication. As soon as either of those two die the ban will be lifted.

Also, if you follow Marquis' advice on expanding into Germany, remember that there's a river between Toulouse and Provence and be prepared to win a bridge battle.

Ajax

[Alexios]

Okay, where do I actually find the Pope? I know he lurks somewhere in the Papal states, but how does MTW represent him? Is he represented like an emperor and positioned with his own military unit, just like any other nation's leader would be? Also, would you happen to know what the average life expectancy of the Pope is in MTW? I'm considering launching an all out offensive against one of my Catholic adversaries (the Germans and Spanish look like they're getting too big for their britches), but need some estimate as to how long it will be before the old codger croaks and I'm no longer ex-commed.

(I apologize for the stupid questions here, but this is the first time I've ever played as a Catholic faction and the first time I've ever had to deal with the Pope.)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Pope, not surprisingly, is usually in Rome, or the Papal States. He has standard Catholic Royal Knights.

[sbroadbent]

Once you get into the High era (after 1205), the best way to deal with Catholic factions is to train up a legion of Grand Inquisitors and go after the faction leader. I find the normal Inquisitors just don't have any chance of success against even an Atheist Faction leader (sitting in a 100% Zeal province). Once the faction leader dies, find any heirs and burn them as well. Eventually the faction will run out of heirs and they'll go rebel. At that point you can bribe or invade without worry.

This tactic won't work against the HRE (as they elect their leaders), or the Pope.

I was playing as the English and I had to deal with a massive Spanish faction with alot of provinces, a huge mobile spanish army, and heavy naval support. In this case, I ended up eliminating the faction and using my 350K treasury, began to purchase the loyalty of many provinces. Luckily the Byzantines (the only other powerful faction) were devastated by the Spanish, otherwise they would be a problem.

GI's are a great tool to use to take down a faction when you don't want to go to war with them, and that won't also be taken out by annoying border forts.

[phred]

Okay, where do I actually find the Pope? I know he lurks somewhere in the Papal states, but how does MTW represent him? Is he represented like an emperor and positioned with his own military unit, just like any other nation's leader would be? Also, would you happen to know what the average life expectancy of the Pope is in MTW? I'm considering launching an all out offensive against one of my Catholic adversaries (the Germans and Spanish look like they're getting too big for their britches), but need some estimate as to how long it will be before the old codger croaks and I'm no longer ex-commed.

(I apologize for the stupid questions here, but this is the first time I've ever played as a Catholic faction and the first time I've ever had to deal with the Pope.)

The pope can only track one excommuncation notice at a time, so if you attack a minor faction (Aragon, for instance) until you get the excommunication warning, then you can go all out against a major faction and the pope won't bother you at all.

[ajaxfetish]

Yes the pope is part of a normal Catholic Royal bodyguard. He'll usually be close to Rome, and if you haven't got the latest patch he'll die right at 56 just like any other ruler. That's probably a pretty good estimate regardless, though.

Ajax

[Weebeast]

Warnings only affect catholic nations, as far as the pope´s concerned you can make war on as many infidels (that includes the orthodox, too) as you wish, he won´t mind.

It's a little bit different for your crusade agenda though. One time I planned to crusade against the Novgorod (strong orthodox at the time) but that senile man didn't let me.


I guess I can share a little tip. If you're not interested to be a 'good catholic' (fight fellow christians, etc) then you might as well lower the piety in your kingdom. Station inquisitors here and there until the inquisitions run out of control. Excommunication isn't that all scary. Sometimes religious revolts rarely happen. If you're respected enough (maintain alliances) nobody will launch crusade against you even if the Pope begs and cries to every catholic.

[Geezer57]

It's a little bit different for your crusade agenda though. One time I planned to crusade against the Novgorod (strong orthodox at the time) but that senile man didn't let me.

In addition to the other things mentioned, the Pope won't sanction any Crusades against his allies, even if they're not Catholic. That probably explains your no-Novgorod game.

[Mr White]

The pope is represented as a king or emporer and has the same lifespan I think. But if you want to attack another catholic without the pope nagging you about it you should use the thrick mentioned above:
First you attack a catholic faction, get warned by old popy and, withdraw and don't attack them for 10 years then attack the faction you want to attack and the pope won't say a thing.

[caio giulio]

Pope?? No problem!! Use Assassins!!

[Yoyoma1910]

I have some advice for when you attack the German states, if you haven't yet or are in the midst of warring with the HRE.


Go after the Emperor early in you invasions. The HRE is prone to instability. Kill off all heirs (which I find aren't usually that many if at all) and the king, and you'll often see many of the HRE provinces go rebel. That's alot of land. Many times some of their strongest armies go grey, and can create amazing buffer states, with entire armies of strong german warriors for a bargan price if you desire. As the French, I've often for either Burgundy or Provence or both heavilly built up, then turning grey, and either presenting an impenitrable barrier or a grand speed bump to a weakened German state and/or an Italian state insistent on war with me when borders are shared.

This should give you some time to build up and concentrate on other fronts or economic growth within your empire.


Also, you may want to invest in ships and play the frog man, invading muslim provences from across the mediterainian, which will allow you to access rich lands without incuring war automatically with christian factions.

[Ciaran]

I´ve just found another way of getting recommunicated without the need of someone dying (at least not someone important, doing it this way will lead to a lot of dead).
If you get excommunicated and the pope calls for a crusade you can still launch one if you had the markers built before your excommunication. Crusade against the faction the pope named and you´re back into the church. I don´t know if it works as well if you just launch a crusade without the pope calling for it, though, I haven´t tested that.
It worked like a treat, I was excommed for my war against the English (I´m playing as HRE, funny, by the way, because Frederick II got re-communicated the same way, taking the crusade), then the pope wanted the re-emerged Almohads brought to heel. I complied, to my surprise I could crusade, and when I checked the diplomatic panel, I was marked as a catholic faction again (not an excommed one). Even better, the next turn the English got excommunicated. Sometimes I love the pope

[Total War Merc]

What I do to stop the pope problem:

Play As A Pagan, Orthodox or Muslim Faction! :)

Or

I am not really bothered about being excommunicated since nothing usually happens (except the rebelions - which i stop by lowering taxes to High and have a few more men in a province), if i get the message "withdraw your troups" if i finish the job fast i dont get excommunicated (you gotta love mercs). When im going for 100% i make sure i dont attack the pope, i keep em alive because they reapear like cockroaches and then when there is only us left, i kill em and "poof" 100%.