economy

[King of the dutch]

Hello,

After being put off playing Eb because of the difficult economy, reading the gameplay guides and getting a better grasp of the building and stuff i started a new campaign. After reading HK description of ruling the seas and so on something came to mind though. Is it even at all possible to 'rule' (i.e. having a large fleet) the seas with the enormous upkeep of the ships? Further more, how are units to gain exp. if you have to disband them all the time? i recognize the historical validity of it since its true they used to do that and its true that financing an (you're) empire was indeed the most dificult thing. Mercenaries often defected to the highest bidder. It seems to me though the ai has a bit unfair advantage with the huge money bonuses they get. (but that has already been mentioned somewhere else)

To elaborate, shouldn't it be more appropiate to make the recruiting cost somewhat lower. This would also reflect the willingness at first to fight for 'the good cause' (especially in the case of the greeks if one believes Plutarch or Polybius). The upkeep could still be high since after a while the troops would start complaining if no succes is gained. I feel this would enhance gameplay a bit as it would also be easier to build a ship for transport and then disbanding it. This is now nigh impossible with 10.000 recruiting cost.

As i was saying am pulled back in so to speak because it is all wonderful with all the stuff and yadiyadiya...(you get my point) but i sometimes felt i had to 'wait' for money clicking end turn numerous times in arow. I don't believe that was the intention. Maybe i should play more (which i will) and 'learn' the game mechanics better, but i think lowering initial recruiting cost would not be such a bad idea.

I will also keep you posted on any bugs i come accros (where is that bug forum)

grtz kotd

Oh yeah another thing. Is the greek bodyguard really weak or what? I see him getting chopped to pieces by akontistai and greek light cav. (used to be prodomoi) In general his charges don't seem to make an impact. He has attack 10! Thats lower than aforementioned Prodomoi type a guys. Methinks that could be somewhat higher for a general bodyguard. Even with his quite high defence he gets slaughtered. Any body else noticed this?

[QwertyMIDX]

Lowering training costs but keeping (or increasing) upkeep would mess with the AI. This might be possible with the current AI money script but if we manage a more subtle one I doubt it would work as well.

[Sartaq]

As i was saying am pulled back in so to speak because it is all wonderful with all the stuff and yadiyadiya...(you get my point) but i sometimes felt i had to 'wait' for money clicking end turn numerous times in arow. I don't believe that was the intention.

Was this intended? I've been feeling that aswell. At first it didn't bother me but now starting each game, depending on the circumstances, I have large gaps of time where I simply have to save money and turns become somewhat frivolous.

Then again the design of RTW is very much focused around war and armies (naturally) so there isin't a lot of subtler aspects to empire managment you might find in some other titles that attempt to keep you busy despite lack of funds.

[QwertyMIDX]

You're supposed to have to wait sometimes, EB is sick of people conquering the world by 245 BC. We want you to see the rest of the period damnit!

[Sartaq]

Alright, that makes sense :D

[Malrubius]

Was this intended? I've been feeling that aswell. At first it didn't bother me but now starting each game, depending on the circumstances, I have large gaps of time where I simply have to save money and turns become somewhat frivolous.

Take advantage of the time to look for the new traits for your generals!

[King of the dutch]

Tenx for you're answer Quert.. i can see you're point. As for the greek general. Did anyone have a look or is it just the way he was balanced?

His stats are: att: 10
def: 20
And this is with an extra chevron already. The rebel general on Krete which is a light cav. unit has: att: 12
def: 16
Without exp. Now the description even mentions this unit is not powerful enough to take on heavy cav. since they have lances and better armour an all. But wih does stats my general doesn't stand a chance . I think he should be beefed up a little. So he can win from light cav. at least

grtz kotd

[QwertyMIDX]

Leathality is a factor as well, your general will win, just watch.

[King of the dutch]

i found the problem:
greek gens only have one hitpoint. As opossed to the Maks. I have to beat this faction heir dude........its killing me.......literaly. Where can i change that?

grtz.

PS: and where do i find the screenshots i take with printscreen?

tenx

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

i found the problem:
greek gens only have one hitpoint.

That is a mistake. They should have 2 HP. We will correct it asap.

[QwertyMIDX]

Well they should have the same HP as the others, we're probably going to drop them all to 1 HP and do a few traits things in hopes of better balance.

[King of the dutch]

Could you plz help me with the following

In what file can i change it myself?

When i take a screenshot with prtscr. where does it end up cos i would like to post a picture on my campaign progress?

tenx

[Malrubius]

I think there's a folder called "tgas" in the Rome - Total War folder. I use Howie's Screen Capture program from http://www.howiesfunware.com, though. It's much better.

[Jebus]

Or you could just open Paint and press 'paste'.

[Malrubius]

Why switch in and out of RTW, playing with paint, when you can press F12 with Howie and have it saved, in the file type and quality you want, in the location you want? You can do it in the middle of a battle without pausing. Much much easier and faster.

[Jebus]

Perhaps, but you wouldn't get to use Paint.


*caresses his Paint*

[King of the dutch]

If i change greek gens hitpoints will it take affect in my savegame or not?

tenx

[QwertyMIDX]

Yeah, it will take effect.

[Perky]

What about having defenseless transports available as mercenries in every coastal province, with a low recruitment cost and high upkeep. This would encourage players to 'hire' transports for just one turn before disbanding.

[Malrubius]

RTW doesn't allow mercenary ships. Having the ability to build cheap defenseless transports in ports would probably be better.

[zarkis]

But only, if the AI can handle them.

[Hildico]

Cheap transport ships (if they can be handled by the AI) seem sensible but I'm not personally sure about naval recruitment cost/upkeep as a whole. I understand and agree with the idea that fleets were expensive things to create and from what I've seen, EB does seem to have lessened the number of fleets floating around the Med for no apparent purpose. However, the punitive upkeep costs prevents the player from maintaining a fleet which effectively removes the struggle for naval supremacy from the game. If the AI cashflow issues can be sorted it would be nice to be able to use naval blockades as a part of your war effort.

Perhaps naval upkeep costs could be reduced while keeping recruitment (and retraining) costs high, or even raising them. It's expensive to create a fleet (timber to build the ships from, skilled craftsman to build them, buying slaves to man the oars, training and equipping the crew). If you need to justify reduced upkeep you could imagine the ships reducing income loss from smuggling in peace time, or partially funding themselves through seizing goods/money/slaves from small time pirates or enemy ships who stray into your territorial waters.

If recruitment costs and the lethality of naval battles is kept high, it should still be difficult to achieve naval supremacy, but at least if your fleet could be maintained for a reasonable cost it might be worth trying.