More recruitment options without gov't in place?

[Dooz]

As the Casse, I can recruit Caldwre(?) in the north-western most European province without any gov't building in place, but once I build a Lvl. 3, the option to do so disappears but I can still build the other troops that were already available, such as the Helveti Bagadum(?). Just wondering what's going on there, how I should handle it? I believe the same principle is applicable to a bunch of other provinces and units so it's a more general thing than just that about that town and unit.

[Callum Murray]

I believe it was intended (and is intended in future updates) that you shouldn't be able to recruit any units until you build a gov't system, however currently when no government is in place you are able to recruit all possible units from any level of government available in that province, so when you built the level three gov't you lost the units available under different governments. I believe Ideally you shouldn't recruit any units in a province until a gov't system is put in place.

[Dooz]

Has it been mentioned if it'll be fixed in future versions, or is the only thing holding me back from training up good units my own will in the time of crisis and war?

[Callum Murray]

Quote by Teleklos Archelaou in the EB Governments thread.

"The one thing I really wish I could emphasize to everyone is that you should *not* build any troops or retrain them in a province where you have not built the new government yet. It's an exploit that we are seeking to correct."

[Dooz]

Thank you Mr. Murray.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I believe we have found a way to correct it that will be in the next patch. It's not implemented yet, but I've been testing and I think we can use the "or" conditionals in a way that will make sure no units can be built without a government.

There are always ways around this if the player wants to exploit the system though - some people inevitably will just repair the previous faction's government building and immediately start repairing or recruiting troops. Nothing we can do about that though.

(Plus we have to fix some recruitment problems in general)

[Spectral]

some people inevitably will just repair the previous faction's government building and immediately start repairing or recruiting troops.

One thing that I like about EB's government system is the money you earn when destroying the enemy's gov building when you conquer a city, somehow I've always felt that the money you earn when sacking a city seems too low ( excepting when putting everyone to the sword, but that is a little bit drastic )

[jebes]

I am not sure if there is a thread out there and I have tried looking but...

What exactly is supposed to happen that doesn't currently happen if the player recruits or retrains troop in a province without a government, or what happens that is isn't supposed to.

I conquered a province and started building a level 1 and started retraining my troops. Then I remembered that I wasn't supposed to do that, so I cancelled all the builds and built a level 4 goverment, waited 2 turns and then retrained my units. However, I couldn't tell what was different.

[Dooz]

In some provinces, you can train troops without any gov't building in place you otherwise can't if you do build a certain one... least that's how I think it works... is it devs?

[MeroFromVero]

What exactly is supposed to happen that doesn't currently happen if the player recruits or retrains troop in a province without a government, or what happens that is isn't supposed to.

What happens that isn't supposed to is the recruitment/retraining. Your recruitment tab should be blank until you build a government. It's not this way now, but that's apparently the goal.

[jebes]

This I don't understand.

Why should we not be able to retrain troops in a conquered province. In almost all situations involving colonization, the conquering army leaves the city after only a short time and recruits a local militia to keep the peace in their stead. The US government is even doing this right now in Iraq and Afganistan by training the Iraqi people.

I think it would be safe to say that in every country, there are people who are unhappy with the current government. (There seems to be an obscene number in fact in 1.2) These rebels and malcontents would be happy to join to conquering army with or without a puppet regime in place. We should be able to recruit militia at the very least, if not retrain or build units outright.

Am I the only one who thinks this is odd?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

but you will be able too, just not immediately. You can train new militia units with a type4 within a couple turns if a MIC already exists. There are problems with gaps in unit recruitment, but I don't understand where the disconnect comes between what you want and what is in the game (ignoring problem areas).

[Dooz]

It makes perfect sense to at least wait for a Lvl. 3 or 4 government to be in place to be able to train militias. They translate to about 1-1.5 years IIRC, which is a stable amount of time for the issue at hand. The American military are training native troops now, but it's been years since the initial invasion. That example actaully proves the point.

[jebes]

I should preface my response by saying that this is a relatively minor complaint and I would not like to take time away from anything more important because I am loving this game and the direction that the EB team has taken this game.

I think that my specific problem is that I build the best possible government in each city that I take and therefore, must often wait 5 years to retrain troops without exploiting the system.

However, I will back down a little because I would agree that first building a type 4, retraining, demolishing the type 4 and building a type 1 does solve the problem, without abusing the system.

I don't think this is the ideal solution because it costs quite a bit of extra money (Aedui campaign with 4k per turn being a good yield.) and takes 9 months to reequip my army and makes the installation of a type 1 take 23 turns. Gameplay aside,

The unrealistic part is that building a type 1 represents no government for 5 years. While 5 years is a good amount of time to establish a homeland government and does a good job at representing reality, the city would not actually have had anarchy for 5 years prior.

Perhaps the level 1 and 2 governments could be broken into 5 or 6 steps. The first step could take 6 months and allow recruitment of militia's but little else because it is a handicapped government. The subsequent steps would represent a slightly more coordinated government until the last step all taking 20 turns added together.

[Dooz]

While most of what you say is true, I don't think the 5 years during which a government is being established, the entire place is in anarchy. Of course, this is a matter of how you percieve it, because there is no specific thing telling you what is going on in the city at the time. But the way that seems most logical with the current system is that it's just a transitionary period with anarchy suppressed by the occupying army. Of course, the taxes and size of the occupying army come into play here realistically, and there very well could be anarchy as there often is if all the things necessary are not in place.

While your idea of breaking up the building times of type 1 and 2 government is interesting, I think it would take away any initiative of the player building lower level ones. The whole point there is to make a choice between what you need at the moment; quick fix a.k.a. type 3 and 4 or long-term establishment, types 1 and 2. Of course you can always upgrade to a type 1 or 2 government after the initial developments of a different type later on.

[Dayve]

I like the idea of only being able to build one type of government in a newly conquered city, which takes one turn... Then once that is built a second can be built which takes 5 turns, then after that another one needs to be built which takes ten... Then maybe make the last one shorter like 5 turns again? Since all they basically have to do now is install a governor of your origional faction and the city is assimilated into your empire completely... But i like the concept of the current system too so whatever you come up with i'll be happy.

[Dooz]

Happiness Is A Warm Gun