Does Being Muslim Make you a Terrorist?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Really Gawain , and do you have any facts to back up that assumption ?

Sure



Look at this one



That represents much more than a fringe element. Show me another religion in which over 30 percent of them support terrorism.

[Ice]

Well considering I don't live in Pakistan, Iraq, Iraq, or one of the many breeding grounds for Islamic terrorists, I would be kind of hard for me to met a Muslim who is a terrorist. I believe you know ex welsh terrorists, because you live around Wales? This is just a guess.

So you havn't met ant Welsh terrorists as you don't live in Wales , you don't live in an Islamic country so you havn't met any Islamic terrorists .
Fair enough .
So as you live in Michigan have you met any of the people from Michigan based groups that your government lists as terrorist groups ?

Whodathunkit , American terrorists , in Michigan of all places , I bet they must be Muslims .

Eh? Actually, the largest concentration of Muslims is in Dearborn, MI which isn't to far from my house. I have yet to met an Islamic terrorist, or I think.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Eh? Actually, the largest concentration of Muslims is in Dearborn, MI which isn't to far from my house. I have yet to met an Islamic terrorist, or I think.

Well most if not all the Muslims Ive met here are also very nice people. But then I doubt they will go running around town yelling for a Jihad and screamong death to America even if they felt that way. Again the title of this thread is silly. No one thinks being Muslim makes you a terrorist. Its just at this moment most of the terrorism in the world is being done by Muslims. Hopefully its time will pass.

[Reenk Roink]

Here's my problems with that Gaiwan.

First, this is support for terrorism, the "official" terrorist organization list says that 1/5 of terrorist in terrorist groups are muslims, proportionally around or a bit lower than the worldwide muslim population.

Second, the second poll is quite out of place. The suicide bombing issue is a complex one. The majority of muslim clerics say that it is forbidden as suicide is forbidden. A minority say that it is not technically suicide (as in trying to escape the problems of life) so it is allowed against military targets. The sparse handful that support the al-Qaeda doctrine say it is ok to kill civilians as well.

The first poll can be reversed on the "collateral damage" doctrine. Say if Americans were asked, "is it ok to kill civilians in war by airstrikes or missle attacks in large cities where innocents are certain to be hit?"

Or take a classic example: "was it ok to bomb the largely civilian targets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to avoid a full scale invasion of Japan?"

[Sartaq]

The first poll can be reversed on the "collateral damage" doctrine. Say if Americans were asked, "is it ok to kill civilians in war by airstrikes or missle attacks in large cities where innocents are certain to be hit?"

That's a logical comparison but there are fundamental differences. If "priority #1 target has purposely put themselves in a civilian area what is the military supposed to do?
And in the case of the original poll civilians are specifically being targeted.

Or take a classic example: "was it ok to bomb the largely civilian targets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to avoid a full scale invasion of Japan?"

That I have more issue with. I say no, it was not OK. More effort should have been made to "prove the point" if you will, through means that do not directly involve civilian deaths.

[Reenk Roink]

Hmm, the poll is retardedly worded, IMO. It's probable that a degree of response bias is evident. The "Violence against civilians" is vague, but the real problem lies in the "defense of Islam." Obviously that adds a degree of threat and defensiveness to the individual who is polled.

I recall that in my Statistics class (my final is tommorow ) we were shown a real life example of two polls in the same region concerning a tax raise. One was worded specially with "for more school revenue" while the other simply gave the rate of increase. Of course, the percentages in favor were 54% and 17% respectively...

[JimBob]

No

Remember the suicide bomber vest was invented by the Tamil Tigers who are primarily Marxist. Remember Red Army Faction, Baader-Meinhorf, and a slew of others? Right now there are terrorist groups everywhere, of every race, color, creed, and persuation. In Ireland there are Catholic and Protestant, in Spain, Basque, in Greece, Anarchists, in Sri Lanka, Tamils...

[Tribesman]

So I ask Really Gawain , and do you have any facts to back up that assumption ?

And I get what ?
A Sure

and a
Look at this one

Really Gawain , surely even you can do better than that .
May I ask you if you are familiar with a recent post where someone dismisses opinion polls as factual evidence as they can be manipulated to ensure the desired result .
The person who made that post goes under the name of Gawain on these forums , have you ever heard of him ?

But since you are obviously unfamiliar with Gawains thoughts on opinion polls Gawain can we examine the "facts" you have put forward ?
For starters what is the source ?
Secondly what was the precise wording for each of the questions asked on each occasion and what was the exact wording of each of the possible responses ?
Thirdly how were the results of those responses seperated into just two categories?
Lastly and most importantly , where are the results for non-muslim respondants and why were they removed so as to only show Muslim respondants ?

It does seem to me that you are just putting out bull that fits with your preconcieved notions despite the fact that your notions are factually completely false .


Eh? Actually, the largest concentration of Muslims is in Dearborn, MI which isn't to far from my house. I have yet to met an Islamic terrorist, or I think.
Thats weird Ghost , since the Michigan based terrorist groups that your government lists appear to be very non-muslim oriented . It appears that you have a strange fixation with Muslims and a weak grasp on facts .

[Goofball]

Nm.

[Fragony]

Dunno, most terrorists are muslims; I will think no further then a simple correlation, I couldn't care less about what they believe as long as they don't do the boom thing, so I say yes. Maybe there have been other groups with other ideals, but currently Islam is entirely the bomb. If it isn't, they sure have a hard time showing it.

[Adrian II]

Knowing a muslim, I would say no...

I know at least five whose innocence I can personally vouch for. Hold on, make that six...

[Ice]

Eh? Actually, the largest concentration of Muslims is in Dearborn, MI which isn't to far from my house. I have yet to met an Islamic terrorist, or I think.[/B]
Thats weird Ghost , since the Michigan based terrorist groups that your government lists appear to be very non-muslim oriented . It appears that you have a strange fixation with Muslims and a weak grasp on facts .

Chill, Tribesman, I must have misunderstood your intial response. I do not have a problem with the ordinary Muslim (My lab partner is bio is a Muslim for God's sake so don't start that shit). Now that I understand exactly what you mean, I will comment.

Michigan based terror groups? That is almost laughable. No offense, but I don't see to many newspaper or new topics that have to do with a Michigan Terrorist groups ramming a truck full of explosives into a building or decapitating other human beings.

[Reenk Roink]

If you are thinking of the Michigan Militia, terrorist group might be too strong of a word...they are wackos though IMO .

[Watchman]

You know, I looked up one of those odd American law-enforcement mags our local well-equipped bookstore carries a while back. They had an article about domestic American terrorism (as well as one about how the Adminstration's "security" policies are turning the country into a "snitch nation" à la good old DDR...) - and that was all about militant eco-nuts who are apparently a bit of an issue there judging by the anecdotes in the article.

That aside, how about the abortion-clinic bombers and the crazy right-wing extremists ? How have they been lately ?

And I would also be rather interested in the logic behind the statement "most terrorists are Muslims at the moment", as I for one have never even heard of anything even hinting in that direction. And Gawain's polls can stuff it; for a comparision Finnish polls show that the welfare state is extremely popular among the populace, but that doesn't keep them from voting centre-right in the elections... And for another comparision, how would one by same criteria read the results of a poll conducted among Americans about torture if it turned out a substantial portion approved of it conditionally (say, "in defense of Liberty" or however these things now usually get sugar-coated) ?

[Tribesman]

If you are thinking of the Michigan Militia, terrorist group might be too strong of a word...
The Michigan Militia are not on the list , the only mention of it is that some of its members are linked to the 3rd Continental Congress which is on the list .

[Gawain of Orkeny]

May I ask you if you are familiar with a recent post where someone dismisses opinion polls as factual evidence as they can be manipulated to ensure the desired result .
The person who made that post goes under the name of Gawain on these forums , have you ever heard of him

Yes I have . But you post polls so I thought you believed in them. You asked for evidence. Thats quite different from proof.

What percentage of Muslims would you venture support terrorism against Israel? Also were those Jews dancing in the streets in the Middle Rast on 911? Can you find a christian or jewish equivolant today? You can try to deny that most of the terrorists in the world today are not Muslim but Ive yet to see any proof of this or of most of all the other tribesman tripe you post.

[JimBob]

Michigan based terror groups? That is almost laughable. No offense, but I don't see to many newspaper or new topics that have to do with a Michigan Terrorist groups ramming a truck full of explosives into a building or decapitating other human beings.

I seem to remember a guy by the name of McVeigh, but that's probably a Muslim name, dropped the a- when he came to the states. The reason they aren't in the papers is that they're not high profile and they kill fewer people.

[Ice]

I seem to remember a guy by the name of McVeigh, but that's probably a Muslim name, dropped the a- when he came to the states. The reason they aren't in the papers is that they're not high profile and they kill fewer people.

Yes, THe Oklahoma City bombings... let's try something new for a change.

[Just A Girl]

I assume that was Just A Girl posting as ShambleS posts are a speeling shambles. While Just A Girl, well spells like a girl... neat and all.

I think all Welsh mums terrorise their kids.

HA.

You were wrong It was Actualy Me Who was posting not trish.
Although Trish Posted in the 12 month old baby rape thread.
I Had to Sit out of that 1 Incase I Went balsitic, And trying to get them killed.

But Any way.
I think you should have Relized it was me.
Simply due to the way i structure my posts.
there always prety similar in structure.
Im a firm belever that Bite sized manageable Chunks of text Are more likley to be read.
Thats why my posts Look like this.


But Just to Re state my Last Point.

"How can any 1 Say most terrorists are msulim If You dont know EXACTLY howmany terrorists there Are"

And Although Mebion glyn dwr never killed any 1 they were A terrorist Group never the less.

The question Is NOT, Do muslim terrorists kill more People than any terrorists of any other religion?.

Neither is the Question, Are Muslims Terrorists the most telivized Terrorists on tv?.

The question Is Does Being Muslim make you a terrorist.
And the answer to that IS blaitantly NO,

[Strike For The South]

A Welsh mum screwd up my Texan vocabulary for years to come. My earliest memories of grade school are "whats a rubbish" or "your mum?" In a Texas drawl that dosent sound purrdy

[Papewaio]

Actually ShambleS the majority of your posts are hard to understand and hence hard to read and hard to take seriously. Just like SFTS and myself have poor post structure... I use ... all the time. I assume all 3 of us have Welsh mums btw so maybe we can blame them for our poor grammar and spelling.

[Just A Girl]

A Welsh mum screwd up my Texan vocabulary for years to come. My earliest memories of grade school are "whats a rubbish" or "your mum?" In a Texas drawl that dosent sound purrdy

Whats A rubbis hamkes no sence at all lol.

What a load of rubish.. Prehaps..

And us welsh say Mam. not mum or mom.

P.S

Mam is not a shortend word In welsh,
Thats the welsh word for Mother..

[Papewaio]

Like Mamgu for Grandmother... but when speaking English (and I haven't used Welsh since before I was 5) I use the English term mom.

[Strike For The South]

I never used Welsh..Im proud of my welshness despite that fact that my mum is really american. Welsh but no language

[Just A Girl]

Actually ShambleS the majority of your posts are hard to understand and hence hard to read and hard to take seriously. Just like SFTS and myself have poor post structure... I use ... all the time. I assume all 3 of us have Welsh mums btw so maybe we can blame them for our poor grammar and spelling.

Lol well I understand what I say Just fine.

I do have a Punctuation problem though,
And I tend to capitalize the 1st letter of Any word I would put emphasis on in a real life conversation...

Thats why some times my posts thend to have capital letters in the middle of the although they arent punctuated.
I supose this could lead some to imagine that i just missed the full stop.
And that would create reading dificultys.

Also a nother problem of mine is that i type to fast, And often hit incorrect keys, (I really miss my edit button lol)

As for my mother.
She works for the goverment, so shes prety good with grammer.

[Reenk Roink]

I never used Welsh..Im proud of my welshness despite that fact that my mum is really american. Welsh but no language

But your Texan...

[Strike For The South]

I cant explain it its muddled in a whole bunch of ship rides in the 18 and 1900s

[Papewaio]

Most Americans are going to be an descendent of an import or two.

[Reenk Roink]

I cant explain it its muddled in a whole bunch of ship rides in the 18 and 1900s

I always wondered how many people from Texas had ancestors who lived in the Republic of Texas...

[Tribesman]

Yes I have . But you post polls so I thought you believed in them.
Really gawain ? I rarely even post links , can you find an example of me posting a poll ?
Or are you thinking of the Isreali Defense Force statistics on terrorism that I posted to make complete nonsense of one of your earlier claims about terrorism , thats not really a poll is it , and surely any bias from those statistics should have been in your favour , if you had bothered to actually use facts to support your position.

You can try to deny that most of the terrorists in the world today are not Muslim but Ive yet to see any proof of this or of most of all the other tribesman tripe you post.
Gawain have you made a mistake there ? The whole point is that most of the terrorists in the world are not Muslim , that is a simple fact . It is you who is denying that that is the truth .

What percentage of Muslims would you venture support terrorism against Israel?
What percentage of non muslims would you venture support the Palestinian cause ?

Also were those Jews dancing in the streets in the Middle Rast on 911? Can you find a christian or jewish equivolant today?
Have you examined your governments proscribed terrorist organisations list ?
You may or may not be surprised that the second most numerous and dangerous of the domestic groups was the JDL which has its origins not far away from yourself in Brooklyn , oh the Jewish terrorists came second the the Puerto Ricans , which was a surprise as I expected the Cubans to top the list .
As you work through the list , surprise surprise it is full of groups who describe themselves as Christian .

Now you may be familiar with a rather well known Christian fruitcake who has a large televised ministry over there , while he may not have been dancing through the middle east (in fact after yesterdays statement from Israel he is not even welcome over there) , but he did celebrate 9/11 as Gods punishment for the wickedness of New Yorkers !!!!!