I love Abyssinian Guards...

[rvg]

For an Egyptian player they are a long awaited and badly needed solution for heavy infantry. Silver/Gold armored Abyssinians work much like poor man's Varangians: they take far more casualties, but nonetheless get the job done.

Ghazi's are quite disappointing mostly because they can't do *anything* other than flanking. I mean, these guys die to vanilla spears....it's absolutely pathetic.

Abyssinians, on ther other hand, are fully capable of withstandting a heavy cavalry charge (yes, they take some losses, but they live long enough to rout the knights) and then some. Excellent castle defenders too.

I don't know why they get no love, I find them to be invaluable to the Egyptian military.

[ajaxfetish]

I've been disappointed personally by their low defence and extreme vulnerability to archers, and I've gotten more from Ghazis on offence. I've got XL now, and though I have yet to play the Egyptians I'm excited about the improved stats for Abyssinians and the addition of Abyssinian elites. I'm expecting a little more powerhouse infantry power from a unit that seems like it should be able to provide it.

Ajax

[Ludens]

To be honest, I hate Abyssinian. They have AP and kill fast, but they also die fast and they have an outrageously high upkeep. For the kill fast - die fast position in my Egyptian armies I use Ghazi's: they are cheap and they don't take elite units with them should they flee. But then in my experience they aren't quite as weak as you describe them.

[Scurvy]

Playing online i love them, they are fast, have high attack and so are excellent for flanking or rushing centre, you do have to use them in comination with saracens or other spears to give them some anti-cav and staying power though (nubian spears perhaps)

[Roark]

Whoa whoa whoa...

I'm sorry, but did someone just diss Ghazis?

[Martok]

Ghazi's are quite disappointing mostly because they can't do *anything* other than flanking. I mean, these guys die to vanilla spears....it's absolutely pathetic.

Sacrilege; burn the heretic!!

Seriouly, though, I'm baffled as to how you can say that about Ghazis; you're probably the first person I've heard say that about them. No, they're not great for defense, but then that's not what you use them for. You use them as shock troops to chew up enemy infantry and spearmen, or (as you already know) for flanking attacks.

By the way, what kind of kill ratio did they get versus these vanilla spearmen you're talking about? When I sick Ghazis on spearmen, they usually get around a 3-1 kill ratio--sometimes it's even higher, particularly if they're able to fight a unit 1-on-1. I love those for that reason alone. They're a fantastic "fire-and-forget" unit. You just unleash the Ghazis and let them have their fun!

[Roark]

- Vicious
- Armour-piercing capability
- Extremely cheap
- Fast on their feet
- Easily valoured-up (with other unit fragments)
- Will outlast almost everyone else morale-wise

As the t-shirt says: Ghazis rock!

[Martok]

Well put, Roark. Couldn't have said it better myself! Ghazis are one of the reasons playing as the Egyptians is so much fun--that, and the ungodly amount of income you receive....

[EDIT]: Hey, it's my 500th post! Only took four years.

[Roark]

4 years? But that's a GOOD thing, d00d. It means you've been busy playing or reading.

[Martok]

4 years? But that's a GOOD thing, d00d. It means you've been busy playing or reading.

[chuckle] True 'dat. I also try to avoid general gabbery (this post being an obvious exception); I don't like putting up a post unless I feel I have an actual contribution to make to a conversation.

And yes, I do spend a good deal of my waking hours playing Medieval (in addition to hanging out here at the Org).

[antisocialmunky]

Abyssinian guards.
Charge 4 Attack 4 Defence 0 Armour 1 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 6 Cost 175 Support cost 75

Abyssinian guards are elite, disciplined and have poor defence. The substantial morale does help keep this unit on the field while it takes large numbers of casualties and the unit is capable of doing good damage when it ploughs into an armoured unit or weak unarmoured unit, however in the end the unit is not that impressive.

Ghazi infantry
Charge 5 Attack 5 Defence -4 Armour 1 Speed 6, 12, 13 Morale 8 Cost 175 Support cost 30

Ghazi infantry are armour piercing and impetuous which means they tend to charge without orders, pick their own targets, ignore orders to retreat and generally give your general premature grey hair! Ghazi infantry have horrible defence matched with very good attack and charge stats. This means that will kill and die quickly. Fortunately they have sky-high morale that means they will keep going even when half the unit is dead, these men are fanatics and it takes a lot to get them off the field. Ghazis are fast which aids in the rush to send them around the flanks to attack from the rear, as long as the Ghazis charge into the enemies rear most of the unit should survive the battle. This is a very nice unit when you learn its nuances.

Abyssians are more balanced, but Ghazis are better flankers.

[Mithrandir]

Plus the higher morale breaks the balance for me.

[Scurvy]

hmm, iv never played as egypt single player, but ghazi's online are one of the most fun units (with some naptha behind them) although i find abys much more useful in a battle

[Betito]

For an Egyptian player they are a long awaited and badly needed solution for heavy infantry. Silver/Gold armored Abyssinians work much like poor man's Varangians: they take far more casualties, but nonetheless get the job done.

Ghazi's are quite disappointing mostly because they can't do *anything* other than flanking. I mean, these guys die to vanilla spears....it's absolutely pathetic.

Abyssinians, on ther other hand, are fully capable of withstandting a heavy cavalry charge (yes, they take some losses, but they live long enough to rout the knights) and then some. Excellent castle defenders too.

I don't know why they get no love, I find them to be invaluable to the Egyptian military.

But why would you have the abyssinians or ghazis taking a cavalry charge?? You have saracens for that. These units are merely for flanking. And ghazis are sooo great for it. Like a living bomb: You drop them, and they disappear everything in their path(sadly, that includes themselves). Yes, they tend to disappear, but they also kill a lot.

Abyssinians cant be such great flankers because they are not as fast. Ghazis are, but,f course, you should never expect them to do a great job in the frontline, thats not their usefulness. They work like highland clansmen(if you have tried those), or like slightly toned down gallowglasses.

Now, abyssinians can be better balanced, and are not bad either, its just that ghazis are so efficient (specialized if you want) and soo cheap(look at the upkeeps) its hard not to use them

[rvg]

But why would you have the abyssinians or ghazis taking a cavalry charge?? You have saracens for that. These units are merely for flanking. And ghazis are sooo great for it. Like a living bomb: You drop them, and they disappear everything in their path(sadly, that includes themselves). Yes, they tend to disappear, but they also kill a lot.

Abyssinians cant be such great flankers because they are not as fast. Ghazis are, but,f course, you should never expect them to do a great job in the frontline, thats not their usefulness. They work like highland clansmen(if you have tried those), or like slightly toned down gallowglasses.

Now, abyssinians can be better balanced, and are not bad either, its just that ghazis are so efficient (specialized if you want) and soo cheap(look at the upkeeps) its hard not to use them

The reason why I use Abys to take a cav charge is because Arbalests cannot fire from behind a spear wall (unlike archers), so I keep a unit of Abys behind every Arbie, and charge Abys every time the enemy tries to crush my arbies.
Spears won't work for that because they cant rush thru arbies AND maintain formation.

[Scurvy]

The reason why I use Abys to take a cav charge is because Arbalests cannot fire from behind a spear wall (unlike archers), so I keep a unit of Abys behind every Arbie, and charge Abys every time the enemy tries to crush my arbies.
Spears won't work for that because they cant rush thru arbies AND maintain formation.

why not just put the arbs on hold then flank with abys or carge through the arbs to reduce losses on abys from charge , arbs can hold against frontal cav charge just fine and abys much more effective charging a static enemy...

[antisocialmunky]

Arbs aren't much use after the battle is joined.

[Roark]

arbs can hold against frontal cav charge just fine

Uhh...

Not in my experience. They tend to bleed on the horses a lot, but that's about it.

[antisocialmunky]

They won't win, but they'll stop the charge. They are good speed bumps.

[ajaxfetish]

They make much better speed bumps with the pavise. No melee offensive capability, but they will stop the charge, so something else can kill it.

Ajax

[Ludens]

They make much better speed bumps with the pavise. No melee offensive capability, but they will stop the charge, so something else can kill it.

The pavise does not give a bonus in melee, so I don't see how it should make a difference. Pavise arbalesters have a better missile protection, nothing more.

[Scurvy]

on vi i prefer pavs but mtw definately arbs (i like to use my arbs/pavs to hold enemy inf while i flank with inf and cav) i find it best to put arbs in 3 ranks but with pavs 4 ranks...

[ajaxfetish]

The pavise thing is somewhat subjective, based on personal experience with no stats to back it up. I know it doesn't grant a melee bonus, but it does seem to still be a physical impediment in itself that'll halt a charge. Once my horsemen (or the enemy's depending on which side of the pavise I'm on) get past that, they don't last any longer than the others, but I've been favorably surprised by my pavise arbs, especially in one instance when they held several units of MHC long enough for the rest of my army to surround and destroy them.

Perhaps CA will (or has) confirm or disprove my hypothesis.

Ajax

[Scurvy]

i dunno about the stats and all but judging by experience pavs (especially on vi) can hold fairly well against light inf anf cav although i doubt they could hold heavy cav or inf long and the risk is that they chain rout into your line...

[ajaxfetish]

Yes, I certainly don't try to use them for my first line of defence, but I don't worry too much about them if I have another unit nearby that can save them. In the situation with the Mongols I was caught by surprise with my line stretched out very long. If they had routed they would have had a clear path away from my army to run, but they held their ground like true stoics, and handed me a great victory!

Ajax

[rvg]

why not just put the arbs on hold then flank with abys or carge through the arbs to reduce losses on abys from charge , arbs can hold against frontal cav charge just fine and abys much more effective charging a static enemy...

Arbies do NOT hold a frontal charge. They most definitely die, and more often than not, rout, if not immediately relieved by some *real* infantry.

Arbies are the main damage dealers in my armies. Everyone else exists to provide support for them.

[Scurvy]

Arbies do NOT hold a frontal charge. They most definitely die, and more often than not, rout, if not immediately relieved by some *real* infantry.

Arbies are the main damage dealers in my armies. Everyone else exists to provide support for them.

hmm i have to disagree, arbs hold long enough against almost all oponents on frontal charge, if flanked or attacked by very good enemy units they do die quite quick, i find them more useful than most spearman (and saracens as egypt) as they have same morale (i think) and can shoot aswell as hold maybe 3/4 the time of saracens, they can also shoot quite nice :)

online (i dont know if sp is v different) you can win games using 5-6 arbs as your inf backed by loads of cav, it works a fair bit of the time (especially when attacking as when you defend ppl are more prone to rushing you so you have not time to shoot)

[Scurvy]

Yes, I certainly don't try to use them for my first line of defence, but I don't worry too much about them if I have another unit nearby that can save them. In the situation with the Mongols I was caught by surprise with my line stretched out very long. If they had routed they would have had a clear path away from my army to run, but they held their ground like true stoics, and handed me a great victory!

Ajax

sos but i dont know how to get 2 quotes on one post --?

Try being english and taking army of 6 pavs, 4 longbows, 4 arbs, and 2 mounted xbows it rules :)

put them with pavs out front on hold formation, 2 arbs on each flank also on hold and longs in centre on engage, xbows just anywhere you want, it works if your patient :)

[Roark]

I was under the impression that the English didn't get Mounted Crossbows...

[Psiloi]

sos but i dont know how to get 2 quotes on one post --?

Try being english and taking army of 6 pavs, 4 longbows, 4 arbs, and 2 mounted xbows it rules :)

Man, that army is food for the cavalry (or a massive swordsmen army), if the enemy have valour and you play in very hard, they can run across the fire and charge against your missile units, or do a flanking attack. Don't forget the close combat units?