Idea for Govt expansion

[Ano2]

I don't know if this is possible but I was thinking about the Roman Empire and how once it aquired new provinces, eventually all troops porduced from that province would fight in a similar manner.

I know this can already be done by implementing a lvl 1 or 2 Govt, however the 3s and 4s can only produce local troops (Generally speaking). However over a long period of time (20 years?) even these 3 and 4 govts would eventually adapt their troops to fight in the manner of their conquerors.

Now this can be done by destorying the current govt and replacing it, however I think it would be good if these 3s and 4s could naturally train troops in the manner of their conquerers after a certain time has passed. Is this possible with scripting? It would also give a good bonus for holding onto a province for a long period of time. The disadvantage of this is that it may reduce the importance of builings 1s and 2s. This is just an idea I had and wanted some opinions on it.

[QwertyMIDX]

It would probably make more sense to be able to upgrade 3's and 4's to 1's and 2's within a certain area, work much better too (within the game engine).

[Ano2]

Thats a good idea actually. Would be logical without having to repeat all the steps again. Plus if you destroy the current 3 or 4 it will take 20 turns to get back to being able to produce troops and get the bonuses.

[QwertyMIDX]

Want to join the team and do coding work?

[Ano2]

Is it hard?

[QwertyMIDX]

Time consuming.

[Ano2]

Heh I know time-consuming. Re-did every unit stat for RTR 6.0, changed recruitment options, fixed bugs and adjusted all unit costs. Then did it again for the patch. Man that mod had a messy release.

[QwertyMIDX]

Would you like to take on the task of managing the recruitment strings in the EDB. It's probably the single worst job in EB... We can give you some trial work on that.

[Spitful]

Hold on, why arent the 4 types of government part of one building complex? I understand you are running out of them (damn hardcodes), although client state is pretty much permenant you could have only two complexes, to get a level 1, you have to start out with a 3 (Lightly Romanised Province) then upgrade to a 2 (Romanised province) finally to one (in Italy only for Romans). Because of the hardcode allowing 5 building levels per complex couldnt you allow a level between 2 and 1, for the Romans it could be a full Roman Citizenship, as it provinces will develop in each players game and adding an alternative to the Italian government makes sense, as history is nolonger the same after 272BC, i could migrate to Britain and set up a new empire there? This would add an extra flexibility which i think that EB would benefit from.

Am i missing something or is this different from the way EB does it. You could have the things happen automatically through scripting if you wanted, but im not sure its possible to do.

[Ano2]

Hold on, why arent the 4 types of government part of one building complex? I understand you are running out of them (damn hardcodes), although client state is pretty much permenant you could have only two complexes, to get a level 1, you have to start out with a 3 (Lightly Romanised Province) then upgrade to a 2 (Romanised province) finally to one (in Italy only for Romans). Because of the hardcode allowing 5 building levels per complex couldnt you allow a level between 2 and 1, for the Romans it could be a full Roman Citizenship, as it provinces will develop in each players game and adding an alternative to the Italian government makes sense, as history is nolonger the same after 272BC, i could migrate to Britain and set up a new empire there? This would add an extra flexibility which i think that EB would benefit from.

Am i missing something or is this different from the way EB does it. You could have the things happen automatically through scripting if you wanted, but im not sure its possible to do.

Sounds like RTR 6.0s recruitment system.

[Spitful]

Or Roma 5.4.1s
The point is it makes sense to do it that way, if a province stays under roman rule for years, its not going to be "lightly romanised" for ever is it?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Or Roma 5.4.1s
The point is it makes sense to do it that way, if a province stays under roman rule for years, its not going to be "lightly romanised" for ever is it?

What if a province stays allied for years - do we force it to become a roman province eventually? What is the problem with letting the player choose when to destroy the type3 or type4 and then build a type2 in its place? AI won't do it, but then AI never gets a type4 anyway - the scripts automatically place the best type for them when they take it.

[QwertyMIDX]

Once we finish the type 3 system they'll get type 4's, at least for some factions.

[Spitful]

What if a province stays allied for years - do we force it to become a roman province eventually? What is the problem with letting the player choose when to destroy the type3 or type4 and then build a type2 in its place? AI won't do it, but then AI never gets a type4 anyway - the scripts automatically place the best type for them when they take it.

Because in the time it takes to rebuild the type 2, they are without any recruitment, population growth bonusses and law bonusses.
There would be nothing forcing them to upgrade, but it saves building complexes and prevents problems like the one above

[QwertyMIDX]

There;s no way we're going to force provinces along a fixed path, sorry.

[Greek_fire19]

Why do we have special area where factions can build certain governments anyway.

I understand that Rome is given a much larger area over which it can build level 1 and 2 complexes, because Rome was good at adapting to local ways and implementing their own way of life in totally different cultures, however surely in 272 BC there was nothing particularly special about Rome in terms of its ability to export it's culture. Say The Carthaginians had won the Punic War and conquored Italy and Gaul; I imagine they would have been as adept at implementing their culture as the Romans.

Obviously I actually have no idea what would have happened if Carthage had won the punic war, but it would not be difficult to argue that a proficiency in assimilating foreign cultures was a consequence and not a condition of conquest, and that it was because the Roman army was so good that the Romans got good at assimilation.

I guess what Im trying to say is, I think that giving factions specific areas where they can and cannot build high levels of government feels a lot like giving the player a 'tram-line' that he has to follow. Obviously some cultures would be easier to assimilate than others because they were spoke similar languages etc, but surely type 2 government involves in most cases large scale extermination or enslavement of the local populace and forceably colonising the area with your citizens. I think the cost and time that requires is well represented in EB and should be possibly in any direction the player chooses to expand into.

Obviously type 2 government means different things for different factions, but you get what I mean.

EDIT: obviously

[QwertyMIDX]

There is a limit to both the willingness of factions to expand in the Roman way, and a limit to projection of direct rule. Ignoring these realities is what makes the conquest system of RTW seem so artifical. Using the engine this is the best way we can do it.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Each decision was made uniquely for each faction (for type1 and type2) - depending on how they expanded historically and what their faction is like. Within those boundaries you always still have multiple choices, but there's no way we're letting an Epeirote homeland province that can recruit Chaonian guards and such be possible to be built just anywhere on the map - we're restricting it. Some folks have more restricted type1 and 2 maps, but it's more based on how well they exported their culture/military compared to others.

We really worked hard on giving each faction their own historical unique strengths and weaknesses.

[mattholomew]

is it possible to associate building construction with some kind of reform? if it was, perhaps this could be used to represent the ability to assimilate cultures into an empire, suppose that once the romans conquered so many cities, they would then become more proficient at annexing them. This could perhaps reduce the lack of late game historical accuracy. For example, before alexander there was no hellenic culture in persia, yet less than 100 years after his death the greeks can build level 2 governments across formerly persian lands. had alexander decided to conquer europe instead, then persia would lack hellenic culture and the greek level 2 governments would extend into spain and italy. i'm not sure what the limits of scripting are and i know that this is tricky but it would be interesting to see.

[Wardo]

What about the capital? Is there anything special about a faction's capital? Would it be possible in any way to associate recruitment with the capital? That would allow for migration.

[Malrubius]

You can't tell which city is the capital through scripting, AFAIK, or anywhere else in-game. I don't think it's possible.