Cleansing oneself of political mularky...

**Devastatin Dave** · 01-10-2006, 19:38

Be it the left or the right, the liberal or conservative, or whatever political party one has allowed to control their beliefs and thoughts, I have made it my mission to wipe the filth and grim of political spectrums that I've allowed to control my thought processes and feelings towards issues that really, in day to day life, don't have any effect on me what so ever.

Abortion... the debate continues, is it a fetus, is it a baby, are you evil for having an abortion, are you evil for apposing those that see it as a right. But in the broader spectrum of my life, why should I give a rat's ass? My wife and I have two wonderful kids and if a third one comes around, we won't abort it simply because it might put us in a pinch. But at the same time, why should I spend endless hours debating the ills or benefits of this act? So I give it to God and let Him judge.

The Death Penalty rages on... how does this effect me? Well, not at all as it turns out. I've never killed anyone nor plan to. None in my family has ever been involved in a murder (well there may have been one or two back in the day but thats a different story). Why waste my time trying to convince someone that they should see it as i do, state sanction murder that is fouled with inconsistent laws when it would be cheaper and more effective to hold these murderers in prison for the rest of there lives? So I give it to God and let Him judge.

The recent fraud of many Party members I've supported... Nothing makes me more angry than defending someone that only turns out to be just the same shista lawyers that chase ambulances and take $.75 to the dollar of any person they represent. Both the parties are bought and sold here in the US, the representation the American people within their government are not the elected officials that speak for the people, they only speak for oil companies, abortionists, ACLU trial lawyers, and Christian extremists that preach something totally different from what God's Word says. They'll be judged as well. So I give it to God and let Him judge.

I could go on with several more examples of the many exchanges that go on and on and on in our beloved Tavern. I am not saying that there should not be a debate, I just feel whats the point in debating when neither side budges and all it does is inflame tensions between most people that would probably be great friends outside of this world we have created to be heard? The more I think about all these things that I've over the years have railed against or die-heartedly supported till the fingers bleed when all the while my words and actions only hurt the ideals and arguments that i was detailing to those with apposing views. Yes, the hypocrisy and irony of this post is beyond the realm of ridiculous from the prospective of those that have known me over the years, but just take a moment to think about it. Is it really that rewarding to you that you've argued something to a point that you've made someone look like a fool, 9 times out of 10 the fool is yourself, or that you've caused the debate to become undebatable? After much thought and reason and council from my Pastor, I will strive to debate things that truelly affect my life and things that are debatable. Good topics that could have a conscencous and not come to loggerheads with people that I've grown to respect and care about over the years. I have no idea really what has made me post this rant/self absorbed reflection, but i just thought I'd share and i have a felling that many out there might actually agree with me. but I won't worry about that because I have given it to God and let Him judge.

**Lemur** · 01-10-2006, 19:41

Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

I am not saying that there should not be a debate, I just feel whats the point in debating when neither side budges and all it does is inflame tensions between most people that would probably be great friends outside of this world we have created to be heard?

That sums it all up in a nutshell. Very well put, DevDave, and this lemur wishes you the best of luck and fortitude with your new path. It's an honorable choice you're making, and we can all stand to be instructed by it.

**Geoffrey S** · 01-10-2006, 19:50

Careful, though. It's only a fine line between being neutral and political apathy. Although debates tend to become heated and may get out of hand, I much prefer that to the disinterest I see in so many around me when it comes to various issues; Iraq, abortion, the death penalty, etc. Although for a large part this can be blamed on so many disappointing politicians, those same politicians get their chance through the apathy of a large portion of potential voters who just don't care anymore.

So, keep an eye out for apathy sneaking in, y'all.

**master of the puppets** · 01-10-2006, 19:53

...ok, so you've like...found jesus then?, personally i see this country as corrupt as hell and is in need of either greast reform or total destruction. most likely total destruction...most likely i will push the button.

**Red Peasant** · 01-10-2006, 20:02

Ahh, very nice. So you've finished with the Backroom then DD?

Au revoir
Aufwiedersehen
Ave et Vale
See ya around

**Devastatin Dave** · 01-10-2006, 20:33

Originally Posted by Red Peasant

Ahh, very nice. So you've finished with the Backroom then DD?

Au revoir
Aufwiedersehen
Ave et Vale
See ya around

No not in the least my friend, I'm just reasoning my existence and my beliefs openly in order to be held in account by you and anyone else that might see me in the future say or act in a foolosh and detrimental way. I want to change my ways but in order to do that one must confess their sins. I have sinned against you my friend in many arguements we have had in the past. I have bared false witness against you and ask for your forgiveness dear Brother. Let this thread be one of coming together and one of consideration for each other. i want to debate with you on merit not on my own emotional ill feelings about subjects. But if there are subjects that we are on total polar opposite sides of, I want to be able to walk away from a stalmate of ideas in order not to cause so much vile venom that have plagued so many of my posts to you dear Friend. Shall i have your forgiveness my friend?

**Red Peasant** · 01-10-2006, 20:40

Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

No not in the least my friend, I'm just reasoning my existence and my beliefs openly in order to be held in account by you and anyone else that might see me in the future say or act in a foolosh and detrimental way. I want to change my ways but in order to do that one must confess their sins. I have sinned against you my friend in many arguements we have had in the past. I have bared false witness against you and ask for your forgiveness dear Brother. Let this thread be one of coming together and one of consideration for each other. i want to debate with you on merit not on my own emotional ill feelings about subjects. But if there are subjects that we are on total polar opposite sides of, I want to be able to walk away from a stalmate of ideas in order not to cause so much vile venom that have plagued so many of my posts to you dear Friend. Shall i have your forgiveness my friend?

Christ DD! This is a forum where people shoot the breeze, nobody bothers me, including you so there's nothing to forgive. There's one thing I might not be able to forgive you for however....if you become dull and bore us all! Piety can be extremely dull you know.

Roll on brother!!

diu vivas semperque valeas!!

**Devastatin Dave** · 01-10-2006, 20:24

Originally Posted by master of the puppets

...ok, so you've like...found jesus then?, personally i see this country as corrupt as hell and is in need of either greast reform or total destruction. most likely total destruction...most likely i will push the button.

Jesus found me, my dear Brother, but many of my Muslim Brothers and Sister along with many other beliefs and thought systems have found this path as well and would agree with me that beliefs and ideals can only be argued to a certain point, then it becomes as pointless as air conditioning in an igloo. I do not see myself as apathetic, I find myself shedding beliefs that have pounded in my head by pundents and idealogues have instructed me to believe and have used my time and emotional energy on thier own crusades against invisible enemies. My dear Brother, total destruction of this country shall never happen. The reason, America is not Democrate or Republican, majority nor minority, it is found within us all and if the People were to see this then maybe, just maybe, the parties will either listen or be desolved. I must see to my family and friends and not allow myself to get caught up in the parties own agendas and power plays for the profits of their backers. Dear friends, brothers and sisters all, why let my heart of mind be troubled by the pain and tribulations others wants one to suffer? Master of the Puppets, this country shall run its course, like all. Your path may be influenced by Her actions and the actions of those appointed to guide Her through current crisises and periods of unrest, but the ideals of our Forfathers and the developement of our government cannot be completely absolved throught the ranglings of those of lesser moral influences. The button may be the answer eventually, but the human spirit with the help of God and general good will cannot be overthrown.

**Ser Clegane** · 01-10-2006, 20:36

Uhm ... sorry ... I shouldn't try to be facetious.

Seriously - kudos to you, Dave

Some wise words that a lot of us (including myself) should remind themselves of from time to time

**KukriKhan** · 01-10-2006, 19:52

An epiphany on Epiphany. Dave...words fail, Sir.

All note:

an honorable man has passed our way

**mystic brew** · 03-22-2006, 15:03

Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

Be it the left or the right, the liberal or conservative, or whatever political party one has allowed to control their beliefs and thoughts, I have made it my mission to wipe the filth and grim of political spectrums that I've allowed to control my thought processes and feelings towards issues that really, in day to day life, don't have any effect on me what so ever.

good view... trouble is that the way views of issues have congealed don't actually make a lot of sense. the traditional right/left, lib/conservative views are nothing more than a convenient fiction. but it is exhausting to view everything from one's own angle, so we tend to class ourselves in the group that most broadly agrees with us.

I could go on with several more examples of the many exchanges that go on and on and on in our beloved Tavern. I am not saying that there should not be a debate, I just feel whats the point in debating when neither side budges and all it does is inflame tensions between most people that would probably be great friends outside of this world we have created to be heard?

I agree thoroughly. it's why i have been so backwards in not posting here, despite the fact that i feel i have something to add (I feel like i know most of you, though you may not know anything of me) once the battle lines are drawn and it's once more an us vs them thing, i lose all interest.
It's the difference between 'Debate' and 'debate'. In a Debate, you get points for scoring points off the opposition, or labelling them godless idiots or knee jerk reactionaries. I prefer to ask questions and find common ground, rather than empahsise differences. after all, as you so rightly point out, the vast majority of the things we discuss make no difference to our lives. Who knows, even the duellers on this forum could live comfortably side by side.

The more I think about all these things that I've over the years have railed against or die-heartedly supported till the fingers bleed when all the while my words and actions only hurt the ideals and arguments that i was detailing to those with apposing views. Yes, the hypocrisy and irony of this post is beyond the realm of ridiculous from the prospective of those that have known me over the years, but just take a moment to think about it.

as i say, if you ask honest questions and listen to the answers, all parties concerned may come to a better understanding of each other.

I dunno. probably to you i would be an atheist, liberal scumbag, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss for the sake of wisdom rather than to say 'i beat him'.