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Thread: Alexander Total War
Expand the map to India, make the extra unwanted terroritory unpassable and make the region part of the Sahara region. Now you've taken care of areas that we don't really care about. As far as re-allocating provinces, make cuts in several regions. From the Isles, take;Erain, Corieltauvae, Cambriae, Cornovae and from NW Africa take Phasania and Gaetulia. Mod the Africa part of the map to put a sahara province border between a fully expanded Carthage and Alexander/Ptolemy. I have personally never seen the AI take Auwjogotanoz, the small island off the coast of of the Scandanavian peninsula, so for all intents and purposes I'd say scrap it. You now have 7 provinces for india, and if it's argued more is needed, the only overallocation of provinces I feel is in Gaul/Germany, so you might want to take one or two from there.
A few more proposals. This should definitely be based on BI, and incorporate the loyalty ratings. Give Rome a counter faction, and make the late game interesting. The emerging factions will allow Baktria to form properly, as well as Pahlava, and any other appropriately emerging faction. It would also allow hording, which would be applied not only to those typical factions you expect, but even to give some depth to perhaps a political party that was driven from it's home. Perhaps use religion as a crude form of culture, with Greek, Roman and Other since these two particular cultures were the ones who dominated regions and slowly converted other cultures to their own ideals. Obviously a persian won't be happy about a barbarian, but neither culture tried to really change the other. Do cities have loyalty in BI? If not, I'd suggest client rulers, with some decent rates of movement for players and keep the current client ruler set up for AI. With client rulers for all, with family members representing generals only, you could give more depth to ruling a city compared to being a battle commander. If when Alexander dies, if his empire is formed, it will collapse into the appropriate factions. If he dies before his time, then depending on how much if anything was conquered, have the 3 generals emerge as contenders in Greece itself. I'd suggest play time be from the death of Alexanders father to either the current end game date, or, slightly before the historical time for the Imperial reforms, and cut them out in favor of giving more units to these new factions if the unit limit from the removed factions doensn't supply enough units to the new factions.
[edit - wrong button] Reasons for not including the KH, it was a alliance of city states, better represented by rebels I think. Other italian factions, nobody else on the peninsula from what I know had a taste for conquest quite like Rome. I noticed Illyria suggested, they only came together for a short while, and were interested in piracy not conquest so much, and thus perhaps give a large naval port to the rebels there with the ability to produce some strong ships. Or a lot of them, whatever. Casse are gone, what role did they really play? Did they ever invade the mainland? Did they even dominate the region? Not really. Arvernii: I believe the Aedui at this time were a stronger faction no? Either way, while it's regrettable to cut them, I again feel their better represented by rebels who oppose a individual tribe. Perhaps if we want a change of tribe there remove the Aedui for another Gaulic tribe that may seem more appropriate. Saka was my last faction that I feel ultimately should be sacrificed, in order to give romans late gameplay value, a counter faction and representing the civil wars. If the Saka were truly a hard competer, they would have been in the core collection of factions EB has had since .7x I feel.
Faction List:
[greek]
1)Makedonia
2)Ptolemy
3)Seleukia
4)Lysimachus
5)Epirus
6)Baktria
7)Eleutheroi
[Roman]
8)Rome
9)Counterfaction
[barbarian]
10)Aedui
11)Getai
12)Lusotannia
13)Sweboz
[steppe]
14)Sarmatian
[Eastern]
15)Pontos
16)Armenia
17)Persia
18)Pahlava
[Forgot their culture]
19)Karthage
20)Saba
[Indian]
21)Maurya
Cut factions:
Casse
KH
Saka
Arvernii
A few more proposals. This should definitely be based on BI, and incorporate the loyalty ratings. Give Rome a counter faction, and make the late game interesting. The emerging factions will allow Baktria to form properly, as well as Pahlava, and any other appropriately emerging faction. It would also allow hording, which would be applied not only to those typical factions you expect, but even to give some depth to perhaps a political party that was driven from it's home. Perhaps use religion as a crude form of culture, with Greek, Roman and Other since these two particular cultures were the ones who dominated regions and slowly converted other cultures to their own ideals. Obviously a persian won't be happy about a barbarian, but neither culture tried to really change the other. Do cities have loyalty in BI? If not, I'd suggest client rulers, with some decent rates of movement for players and keep the current client ruler set up for AI. With client rulers for all, with family members representing generals only, you could give more depth to ruling a city compared to being a battle commander. If when Alexander dies, if his empire is formed, it will collapse into the appropriate factions. If he dies before his time, then depending on how much if anything was conquered, have the 3 generals emerge as contenders in Greece itself. I'd suggest play time be from the death of Alexanders father to either the current end game date, or, slightly before the historical time for the Imperial reforms, and cut them out in favor of giving more units to these new factions if the unit limit from the removed factions doensn't supply enough units to the new factions.
[edit - wrong button] Reasons for not including the KH, it was a alliance of city states, better represented by rebels I think. Other italian factions, nobody else on the peninsula from what I know had a taste for conquest quite like Rome. I noticed Illyria suggested, they only came together for a short while, and were interested in piracy not conquest so much, and thus perhaps give a large naval port to the rebels there with the ability to produce some strong ships. Or a lot of them, whatever. Casse are gone, what role did they really play? Did they ever invade the mainland? Did they even dominate the region? Not really. Arvernii: I believe the Aedui at this time were a stronger faction no? Either way, while it's regrettable to cut them, I again feel their better represented by rebels who oppose a individual tribe. Perhaps if we want a change of tribe there remove the Aedui for another Gaulic tribe that may seem more appropriate. Saka was my last faction that I feel ultimately should be sacrificed, in order to give romans late gameplay value, a counter faction and representing the civil wars. If the Saka were truly a hard competer, they would have been in the core collection of factions EB has had since .7x I feel.
Faction List:
[greek]
1)Makedonia
2)Ptolemy
3)Seleukia
4)Lysimachus
5)Epirus
6)Baktria
7)Eleutheroi
[Roman]
8)Rome
9)Counterfaction
[barbarian]
10)Aedui
11)Getai
12)Lusotannia
13)Sweboz
[steppe]
14)Sarmatian
[Eastern]
15)Pontos
16)Armenia
17)Persia
18)Pahlava
[Forgot their culture]
19)Karthage
20)Saba
[Indian]
21)Maurya
Cut factions:
Casse
KH
Saka
Arvernii
Isn't this faction list strange?In 360 bc there were no Ptolemies or Seleucids (together with persians?Thats strange),and no Lysimachus.Why make Alexanders empire crumble?EB is about changing history,not replaying it.I can only see a way to include them if one of these are shadow faction of Maks,or if they are emergent.Saka should changed to massagetae, almost kicked some mak ass.
Why all the discussion if the mod is dead anyway?
Konny wants to revive it.
Yes, provided there are some people that will join in. I can't make it all singlehanded. I had made some conceptual maps with homelands and expansion zones for possible new factions that I will upload tomorrow.
Roman counterfaction? The game ends around the time EB starts, there is no need for the possibility of a Roman civil war.
Cutting KH would be no-go for me. They were very important for the time of Philipp.
Playing Casse in 360 BC is for sure not different than playing them in 270; but on the other hand it is one of the favorite factions of many players and I don't see a reason to kick them out (that AI doesn't know what to do with them isn't an argument. If it was one, we must cut nearly all factions out.)
Originally Posted by :
Expand the map to India, make the extra unwanted terroritory unpassable and make the region part of the Sahara region.
I didn't plan to make a new map. I wanted to use the EB map and the EB units to represent the periode. The idea is a "Prelude to EB" with using as much of the original game as possible. Of course, if someone is willing and able to make a new map that fits better, please step foreward. The same is for new units: there is something like the Immortals missing for the Persians. Another unit would be an Etruscian Hoplite in EB style.Expand the map to India, make the extra unwanted terroritory unpassable and make the region part of the Sahara region.
Originally Posted by :
This should definitely be based on BI, and incorporate the loyalty ratings. Give Rome a counter faction, and make the late game interesting.
I had thought on the BI as well for the possiblity to create a Makedon rebell faction for the East (certainly not all 4 of them). Hording would be fine, too. For example for a Celtic horde that comes down the Danube. This should definitely be based on BI, and incorporate the loyalty ratings. Give Rome a counter faction, and make the late game interesting.
Roman counterfaction? The game ends around the time EB starts, there is no need for the possibility of a Roman civil war.
Originally Posted by :
Faction List:
1)Makedonia
2)Ptolemy
3)Seleukia
4)Lysimachus
5)Epirus
6)Baktria
That would be four emerging factions for the Makedons. A little much, especially because the chance to get at least one into the game is very small: The AI won't conquer Persia and a human player won't have so much problems with unrest.Faction List:
1)Makedonia
2)Ptolemy
3)Seleukia
4)Lysimachus
5)Epirus
6)Baktria
Originally Posted by :
8)Rome
9)Counterfaction
A counterfaction for the Romans is not needed. They start with Latium only and are not intended to take much more than Italy. After thinking it over, I would suppose to cut the Samnite as well and replace them with rebells. When Syracusae and a Italo-Celt faction is in, Italy is allready quite full.8)Rome
9)Counterfaction
Originally Posted by :
15)Pontos
16)Armenia
17)Persia
18)Pahlava
Pontos and Persia at the same time?15)Pontos
16)Armenia
17)Persia
18)Pahlava
Originally Posted by :
21)Maurya
Yes, an Indian faction could be an idea - on the other, were these Indian provinces of any importance for the other factions, others than provinces that a lot of people tried to counquer in vain? Their main "zone of action" would be somewhere outside the map.21)Maurya
Originally Posted by :
Casse
KH
Saka
Arvernii
Saka could be a candidate to cut because Parthia should start further north as a nomad faction. I hadn't the Arverni on my list too. They should be replaced by an Italian tribe, for example the Boii in Bononia or the Insurbes in Mediolanum; leaving Gaul to a single-town faction, for example the Bituriges.Casse
KH
Saka
Arvernii
Cutting KH would be no-go for me. They were very important for the time of Philipp.
Playing Casse in 360 BC is for sure not different than playing them in 270; but on the other hand it is one of the favorite factions of many players and I don't see a reason to kick them out (that AI doesn't know what to do with them isn't an argument. If it was one, we must cut nearly all factions out.)
I suggest switching Saka for Massagetae.And Im not sure maurya was that dominant at the west of india at time,you should include Porus and his kingdom,the one that alex conquered.Oh,and if you start the work after more then two weeks,Im sure we will share our india map with you.
Thank you. I think that would be to much of the East. I want the western factions to be in as well.
I am wavering about the Indians. Either some very strong rebell towns or a faction of its own might distract the AI Persians to east. On the other hand, if that is a neutral faction the Persians might as well go for Thrakia - and there I want to keep them out as long as possible. The Indians are also not expected to expand into the EB map. So, these are more arguments against the Indians than for them.
I am wavering about the Indians. Either some very strong rebell towns or a faction of its own might distract the AI Persians to east. On the other hand, if that is a neutral faction the Persians might as well go for Thrakia - and there I want to keep them out as long as possible. The Indians are also not expected to expand into the EB map. So, these are more arguments against the Indians than for them.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but I'd love to see / make a mini-mod that's Alexander Total War: a game that plays out more or less for the possible duration of Alexander's life and no further.
I'm basically thinking about:
The idea would be either to:
Y'know, basically what CA failed to do well with their expansion pack. Lots of combat and diplomacy, lots of scripted help for the AI if it's playing as Alexander.
I'm basically thinking about:
- Start with Phillip's death
- A map that reaches east to the Ganges and west to Iberia
- An India that is as crowded and detailed as Greece and Asia Minor
- 6 or 12 turns per year (with movement and build times modified accordingly)
- Even more scripted events dealing with logistics and marching
The idea would be either to:
- Play as Alexander and do stuff (not necessarily what Alexander did, though, you could go west from the start if that was your bag).
- Play as Darius and try to keep the Persian empire from crumbling.
- Play as one of the other factions, struggling to keep itself afloat in a time when the world was radically changed.
Y'know, basically what CA failed to do well with their expansion pack. Lots of combat and diplomacy, lots of scripted help for the AI if it's playing as Alexander.
6-12 turns per yaer would require rewriting almost whole script.Konny said he will start with Philliphos still alive.
Yes, starting around the year Philipp came to power was the idea to have around 100 years of game play. I also didn't want to focus on Makedonia alone, even though they had been the major power of the time frame (like Rome for EB). There should be other new experinces too, for example starting Rome with just one province, playing the Gauls without a civil war, playing a Celtic faction in Italy, or playing a complete new faction like Syracusae or Thrakia.
@ mrtwisties: I think your idea could be a good mini mod for Asia ton Barbaron because they will have India better covered than EB. In that mod you will have a complete redone East. In an Alexander mini-mod there should be Makedonia playable only because the AI isn't able to win battles in most of the times and therefore won't be able to overrun you with one stack when you are the Persians.
@ mrtwisties: I think your idea could be a good mini mod for Asia ton Barbaron because they will have India better covered than EB. In that mod you will have a complete redone East. In an Alexander mini-mod there should be Makedonia playable only because the AI isn't able to win battles in most of the times and therefore won't be able to overrun you with one stack when you are the Persians.
You could use some kind of decline system for persians trough traits,to make them weaker.
Here are some maps:
The general map.
New factions:
Yellow (former Arverni): Italian Celts; status: for sure
Purple (former Pontos): Samnite; status: probably not
Blue (former Baktria): Italian Greeks; status: for sure
Seagreen (former Armenia): Thrakia; status: probably yes
Grey (fromer AS): Persia; status: definitly
Candidates for kick out:
Saka, due to Parthia's new position.
Sauromate, if Scythia will be in
light blue and light green show positions for further factions (there is at least one slot free, Ptolemaians; and certainly another for the Samnite):
India (any or all of the marked provinces)
Scythia
Bosphorian Greeks
Egyptian Rebells (no idea how they called themselves)
Numidia
Alpine Celts
Danube Celts
Baltics.
-------------------------------
Here are some homeland concepts for new factions:
Italian Celts
Persia
Syracusae
Thrakia
The general map.
New factions:
Yellow (former Arverni): Italian Celts; status: for sure
Purple (former Pontos): Samnite; status: probably not
Blue (former Baktria): Italian Greeks; status: for sure
Seagreen (former Armenia): Thrakia; status: probably yes
Grey (fromer AS): Persia; status: definitly
Candidates for kick out:
Saka, due to Parthia's new position.
Sauromate, if Scythia will be in
light blue and light green show positions for further factions (there is at least one slot free, Ptolemaians; and certainly another for the Samnite):
India (any or all of the marked provinces)
Scythia
Bosphorian Greeks
Egyptian Rebells (no idea how they called themselves)
Numidia
Alpine Celts
Danube Celts
Baltics.
-------------------------------
Here are some homeland concepts for new factions:
Italian Celts
Persia
Syracusae
Thrakia
When you put it like that, Persia really is... really is big. It's hard to believe that anyone could have torn it to pieces.
The place where you put Pahlava is the place where Massagetaes lived.A name change for them would be great.Epirus should not have Illyria Hellenike province at this time.
Faction List:
Makedon
Persia
Getai
Thracia
Hellas/Sparta
Porus
Massagetai
Dahae
Sarmatia
Don't try to make a full conversion right away, just do a simple campaign that allows you to play as Alexander and make an empire like his, nothing more. If this succeeds, then keep going.
Makedon's unit list is wrong. No Thureoporoi, no pheraspides, and you only need one machimoi/pantodapoi phalangitai, no more.
Good luck with this,
RM3
Makedon
Persia
Getai
Thracia
Hellas/Sparta
Porus
Massagetai
Dahae
Sarmatia
Don't try to make a full conversion right away, just do a simple campaign that allows you to play as Alexander and make an empire like his, nothing more. If this succeeds, then keep going.
Makedon's unit list is wrong. No Thureoporoi, no pheraspides, and you only need one machimoi/pantodapoi phalangitai, no more.
Good luck with this,
RM3
Maybe you should use some reforms for Makedonia.After the reform they would be able recruit machimois/pantadapois and some greek-egyptian or greek-persian troops.At start they recruit levies deuterois and haplois as only.Pezhetairos,hypaspystes and hetairos for their elites.After the reform they get pheraspides and Basilekon Agemata(That ptolie elite unit).
My english is so bad....
My english is so bad....
Some ideas about persia.Persia should only have level 1 govs in Iran and Expansion gonverments in armenia and Iraq.Everything else should be allied states,because persians used the troops of they nations they conquered,and their factional troops all come from Iran.Oh and one question.Didin't egypt belong to persia in 360 bc?Correct me if Im wrong.
That is the reason why I had placed "P 1" and "P 2" markers to some unit cards. I was thinking of two "Phalanx Reforms": the first to get Makedonian Phalanx at all (should be there for Makedonia from the start and available for example for Epiros and the Italian Greeks). The second to get the Successor army of the start of EB.
The Machimoi and Pantodapoi are concepts for Makedonian units on Persian territory (may be after another reform). Of course, nothing is definite so far.
The Machimoi and Pantodapoi are concepts for Makedonian units on Persian territory (may be after another reform). Of course, nothing is definite so far.
Originally Posted by :
The place where you put Pahlava is the place where Massagetaes lived.A name change for them would be great.
Thank you. The only map that I had showing the position of the Partians in that time has just a big arrow coming from the north and pointing into their later homelands.The place where you put Pahlava is the place where Massagetaes lived.A name change for them would be great.
Originally Posted by :
Epirus should not have Illyria Hellenike province at this time.
ok.Epirus should not have Illyria Hellenike province at this time.
One more suggestion.Thrace was not unified at this time IIRC.You may want to cahnge Thrace to Thracian kingdom of Byzantion or kingdom of Tylis.
Originally Posted by Malik of Sindh:
Didin't egypt belong to persia in 360 bc?Correct me if Im wrong.
Egypt was in a state of revolt until 342 BC. The same would be the Kadusians south of the Caspian. Syria and Phoenicia did revolt against Artaxerxes III as well, but I haven't researched the exact dates/situation in the 360s.Didin't egypt belong to persia in 360 bc?Correct me if Im wrong.
Originally Posted by Malik of Sindh:
One more suggestion.Thrace was not unified at this time IIRC.You may want to cahnge Thrace to Thracian kingdom of Byzantion or kingdom of Tylis.
May be, Odrysai would be better. It was quite strong around 360 but did breake appart soon after and was (partly) conquered by the Makedonians.One more suggestion.Thrace was not unified at this time IIRC.You may want to cahnge Thrace to Thracian kingdom of Byzantion or kingdom of Tylis.
Per se, there weren't really enough presence for a Parthia faction. Instead, I'd substitute in Dahae.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...edonEmpire.jpg
This map is a perfect example for the various tribes.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...edonEmpire.jpg
This map is a perfect example for the various tribes.
If you are thinking of putting in an Indian faction, Maurya would be unhistorical during this time. Northern India was split into many smaller but powerful kingdoms that Alexander defeated and left a power vacuum for Chadragupta to move into in 320BCE. So for an Indian faction it would be Gandhara or some local power or just rebels representing each of the smaller kingdoms
I already suggested this,The only Indian kingdom suitable for this period is Porus.
No, there are two others.
You got Porus, King of Panjab. Ambhi, King of Taxila. And Magadhs.
You got Porus, King of Panjab. Ambhi, King of Taxila. And Magadhs.
I don't think that there should be a playable Indian faction at all. The thing is that the AI heads for rebell towns first, hostile factions next and afterwards neutral and allied factions (I don't think it really makes a difference between both).
This is the problem we have in every EB campaign: Rome always heads north first, even though they should attack their enemies (Epeiros) in the south. Epeiros has an army next Pella but doesn't start the siege and withdraws the force to conquer Illyria. Later they only send parts of the force back to Pella. etc
So, the best way to "invite" the AI to a specific region would be to make some rebell towns there. Allowing for an Persian expansian into the East and giving them a problem with Egypt rebells in the South plus a neutral faction Thrakia (or whatever it will be in the end) in Byzantion will certainly prevent the expansion of an (AI) Persia into the west before a (human controlled) Makedonia has brought Greece under controll.
Another idea could be to start in 342 when Makedonia had allready conquered Thrakia and Thessaly.
If Makedonia is AI controlled, all that doesn't matter because an AI Makedonia will either be overruned by her neighbours or head for the Balkans.
This is the problem we have in every EB campaign: Rome always heads north first, even though they should attack their enemies (Epeiros) in the south. Epeiros has an army next Pella but doesn't start the siege and withdraws the force to conquer Illyria. Later they only send parts of the force back to Pella. etc
So, the best way to "invite" the AI to a specific region would be to make some rebell towns there. Allowing for an Persian expansian into the East and giving them a problem with Egypt rebells in the South plus a neutral faction Thrakia (or whatever it will be in the end) in Byzantion will certainly prevent the expansion of an (AI) Persia into the west before a (human controlled) Makedonia has brought Greece under controll.
Another idea could be to start in 342 when Makedonia had allready conquered Thrakia and Thessaly.
If Makedonia is AI controlled, all that doesn't matter because an AI Makedonia will either be overruned by her neighbours or head for the Balkans.
You will not start this minimod if no one will help you?I can help you with scripts,I need some experience before we start AtB.I have no experience right now though.
That is fine, thank you.
Changing the script shouldn't be to difficult, but a lot of work. Most of it is allready in EB and has to be moved around. I will make a to do list in short as an overview.
The most elaborate will be the Persians. It is not only deciding what units they should get, but also which of the buildings do fit in the Persian culture, assinging of new faction specific traits, like ethnicities, rennaming several places like Antiochia, Seleukia and all those Alexandrias. That is, so to say, reconstructing the original culture by the successor cultures. I think, Pontos is the the most "Persian" one of all EB cultures and may be a better slot to place them than AS.
Changing the script shouldn't be to difficult, but a lot of work. Most of it is allready in EB and has to be moved around. I will make a to do list in short as an overview.
The most elaborate will be the Persians. It is not only deciding what units they should get, but also which of the buildings do fit in the Persian culture, assinging of new faction specific traits, like ethnicities, rennaming several places like Antiochia, Seleukia and all those Alexandrias. That is, so to say, reconstructing the original culture by the successor cultures. I think, Pontos is the the most "Persian" one of all EB cultures and may be a better slot to place them than AS.
It looks like there hasn't been any new posts here in a while, so I thought I'd just bring this up again.
I personally would love an EB-type realism mod for RTW Alex and have been baffled as to why there aren't any whereas mods for RTW vanilla and Barbarian Invasion are so numerous you can practically scoop up a dozen in a five-minute google search.
I love EB, I'm gonna install Invasio Barbarorum soon, and I have a feeling that I'd love an Alexander mod, and I hope I'm not the only one.
So basically, what's the status with this mod? Any news is good news with these things, no?
I personally would love an EB-type realism mod for RTW Alex and have been baffled as to why there aren't any whereas mods for RTW vanilla and Barbarian Invasion are so numerous you can practically scoop up a dozen in a five-minute google search.
I love EB, I'm gonna install Invasio Barbarorum soon, and I have a feeling that I'd love an Alexander mod, and I hope I'm not the only one.
So basically, what's the status with this mod? Any news is good news with these things, no?
Originally Posted by J.Alco:
So basically, what's the status with this mod? Any news is good news with these things, no?
Seems like this one has died in childhood. There were never enough members to make a team out of it. I myself have moved to other smaller projects while a lot of members with modding experince seems to be busy with ATB or their own projects. So basically, what's the status with this mod? Any news is good news with these things, no?
Nevertheless, when there will be team, there will be a mod.
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