Bad traits due to excessive cash!

[sik1977]

I read on these forums on more then one occassion that having more then 50,000 dinarii in the bank gives your generals bad traits.

After a while, if your economy is well managed, 50,000 is a very easy figure to hit, infact very difficult to stay under with some factions. This however starts to give horrible traits to the generals and makes them both useless for Governor duties as well as field work. My current situation is that every Governor is atleast an embezzler, and there is zero, yes zero income from tax in most governed cities.

I would like to know the following:

1. What are the exact numbers where the bad traits start, i.e., 50k or more?
2. Is there a way to mod out this effect of gaining bad traits due to excessive cash.

BTW, I do give out huge cash grants to many a weak faction in order to make them stand against Roman power, so its not like i like to roll in the dinarii i collect. I would nevertheless want my generals to be not useless due to an obvious issue which effects each and every one of them. Its hard to imagine them all having the exact same traits... which this issue usually causes.

Thanks for the replies.

[professorspatula]

I wish I had loads of cash. My empires are seldom flowing with cash for long. Maybe my army is too big. But 60,000 upkeep a turn is a fair price to play for secure borders on every front. You could just keep churning out Praetorians or Silvershields or whatever your most expensive unit is to keep profits lowered, whilst simulatenously building up a strong military. Or fill your building queues with buildings, even if you aren't planning to build them. IIRC, money goes from your treasury whenever you put something into the queue even if it won't be built for another 10 years or more. This means your money is tied up in construction and won't contribute to your governor's bad traits. When you need the money back, remove the buildings from the build queues. That's the theory anyway.

It doesn't matter a great deal if you're making silly amounts of money and your governors get bad traits because you obviously weren't using all that money anyway, so a bit of wastage isn't disasterous.

The bad traits tend to start at 50K, then increase at 100K, and again at 150K if I remember correctly.

You can mod the character traits file to change the probabilities of picking up bad traits but I personally wouldn't change it that much. You need some disecomonies of scale to help keep your empire from getting endlessly powerful. That said, once you're massive and your empire is a money making machine, nothing can stop you anyway.

[sik1977]

@ professorspatula

Thanks for the reply. I am well aware of all the ways of spending or throwing money away. I am however interested in knowing the exact manner in increasing the 50k/100k/150k limits if at all possible.

[gardibolt]

And my understanding is that the bad trait testing kicks in at a mere 11,000 in BI.

[professorspatula]

Probably should be a modding question then.

Anyway, edit the export_descr_character_traits.txt file.

Then find this:
Trigger corruption1

That's the first trigger test for corruption.

The next few triggers are under that one.

The effects of the 50K, 100K and 150K corruption trait tests are cumulative.

You can increase the amount of denarii required for the trigger to kick in, or you could remove the traits affected, or lower the chance of receiving an increase in the trait. Or you could even edit the threshold level for each of the traits. The Corrupt trait for example could be edited so you need 12 points in it to reach the maximum level of the trait. At the moment you need just 6 points.

But er, yea, going back to your original question, to change the denarii limits,
edit these parts:
Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 50000

And up it to whatever you want. Do it for all the triggers that check for denarii in your treasury.

[sik1977]

Thanks Professorspatula.

I found the problem with my charater traits file. The mod I am using seems to have borrowed the triggers from BI and they have the decreased treasury threshhold of 11k, 17k and 23k with higher chances of gaining these bad traits.

;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption1
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 11000

Affects Corrupt 1 Chance 3
Affects Aesthetic 1 Chance 10
Affects ExpensiveTastes 1 Chance 3
Affects Epicurean 1 Chance 3
Affects BadAdministrator 1 Chance 3

;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption2
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 17000

Affects Corrupt 1 Chance 3
Affects Aesthetic 1 Chance 10
Affects ExpensiveTastes 1 Chance 3
Affects Epicurean 1 Chance 3
Affects Embezzler 1 Chance 10

;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption4
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 23000

Affects Corrupt 1 Chance 7
Affects Aesthetic 1 Chance 15
Affects ExpensiveTastes 1 Chance 3
Affects Epicurean 1 Chance 3
Affects Embezzler 1 Chance 15

;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption3
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 15000
and CultureType roman

Affects ApicianRomanVice 1 Chance 13

I have now changed them back to the original. Which isn't all that bad it seems. I dont mind 1 out of three embezzlers, just not all three.

[x-dANGEr]

Hmm.. I have more than 150k in my reasury and till now I haven't got any of those traits...

[TinCow]

Thanks Professorspatula.

I found the problem with my charater traits file. The mod I am using seems to have borrowed the triggers from BI and they have the decreased treasury threshhold of 11k, 17k and 23k with higher chances of gaining these bad traits.

I can deal with the 50k limit because at that point slowing down my income is reasonable. 11k though??? What mod is this?

[Goofball]

You can increase the amount of denarii required for the trigger to kick in, or you could remove the traits affected, or lower the chance of receiving an increase in the trait. Or you could even edit the threshold level for each of the traits. The Corrupt trait for example could be edited so you need 12 points in it to reach the maximum level of the trait. At the moment you need just 6 points.

Okay, I see what you mean, but I'm vague on the details. For example:

;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption1
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 11000

Affects Corrupt 1 Chance 3
Affects Aesthetic 1 Chance 10
Affects ExpensiveTastes 1 Chance 3
Affects Epicurean 1 Chance 3
Affects BadAdministrator 1 Chance 3

I take the above to mean that at the end of any turn where a character ended in a settlement and the faction's treasury exceeds 11,000, he will be tested for vices and has (to use the first one on the list) a 1 in three (or 33.33%) chance of being assigned the corrupt vice.

So, if I were to change:

Affects Corrupt 1 Chance 3

to:

Affects Corrupt 1 Chance 500

would he then only have a 1 in 500 (or 0.20%) chance of obtaining the corrupt vice?

[orangat]

Why don't you change the trigger to 1,000,000 instead of changing the probability.

And corrupt 1 chance 3 is level 1 corrupt at 3% not 33% I think.

[Goofball]

Probably should be a modding question then.

Anyway, edit the export_descr_character_traits.txt file.

Then find this:
Trigger corruption1

That's the first trigger test for corruption.

The next few triggers are under that one.

The effects of the 50K, 100K and 150K corruption trait tests are cumulative.

You can increase the amount of denarii required for the trigger to kick in, or you could remove the traits affected, or lower the chance of receiving an increase in the trait. Or you could even edit the threshold level for each of the traits. The Corrupt trait for example could be edited so you need 12 points in it to reach the maximum level of the trait. At the moment you need just 6 points.

But er, yea, going back to your original question, to change the denarii limits,
edit these parts:
Condition EndedInSettlement
and Treasury > 50000

And up it to whatever you want. Do it for all the triggers that check for denarii in your treasury.

Could you not just delete the whole following section and then have no corruption triggers kick in due to excessive cash?

;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption1
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and Treasury > 50000
    Affects Corrupt  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Aesthetic  1  Chance  3 
    Affects ExpensiveTastes  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Epicurean  1  Chance  3 
    Affects BadAdministrator  1  Chance  3 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption2
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and Treasury > 100000
    Affects Corrupt  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Aesthetic  1  Chance  3 
    Affects ExpensiveTastes  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Epicurean  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Embezzler  1  Chance  3 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption4
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and Treasury > 150000
    Affects Corrupt  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Aesthetic  1  Chance  3 
    Affects ExpensiveTastes  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Epicurean  1  Chance  3 
    Affects Embezzler  1  Chance  3 
;------------------------------------------
Trigger corruption3
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and Treasury > 50000
          and CultureType roman
    Affects ApicianRomanVice  1  Chance  3

[orangat]

It might work in this case since its not the only trigger section for corruption.
I'm wondering if there must be at least one trigger for a trait or a ctd occurs.