Hajj stampede

**Geoffrey S** · 01-12-2006, 18:54

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4606002.stm

It seems like this kind of thing happens year after year during the Muslim holy days. Why is it that despite so many disasters due to the huge flow of people it happens time and time again? What is it that seems to make it impossible to regulate the flow of people, to impose some kind of order on the crowd? I'd have thought there must be some way to prevent this from happening, but almost every year it's the same horrible tragedy.

**Slyspy** · 01-12-2006, 19:00

If you can regulate a crowd of two million people all intent on doing their religious duties then perhaps you can apply for a job in crowd control.

**LeftEyeNine** · 01-12-2006, 19:58

Originally Posted by Slyspy

If you can regulate a crowd of two million people all intent on doing their religious duties then perhaps you can apply for a job in crowd control.

That sums it up.. That worship gets people thorugh some trance-like mood. I find it nearly impossible to make an organization that will avoid any casulaties in such a condition.

**Reenk Roink** · 01-12-2006, 20:03

From what I'm told, Muslims don't see it as a tragedy dying in their pilgrammage, but as martyrdom...

**Don Corleone** · 01-12-2006, 21:18

You don't really expect me to believe that an Indonesian mother or a Bosian father are perfectly happy that they'll not see their son in this life ever again. I'm sorry, grief is far too universal a human concept to buy that.

**bmolsson** · 01-15-2006, 06:05

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

You don't really expect me to believe that an Indonesian mother or a Bosian father are perfectly happy that they'll not see their son in this life ever again. I'm sorry, grief is far too universal a human concept to buy that.

Most on haji are old, very old. They don't have any parents and are often rather weak for a trip like this, which also contributes to the high casualty rates in these incidents.

**LeftEyeNine** · 01-12-2006, 21:28

Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

From what I'm told, Muslims don't see it as a tragedy dying in their pilgrammage, but as martyrdom...

That's true.. Dying during this religious ritual -as any other incidents initiated on religious feelings- are counted as martyrdom.

**Don Corleone** · 01-12-2006, 21:44

Well, I stand corrected. Apparently my empathy (clearly I don't feel the same things, so sympathy is not the right word) was misplaced. Amazing, if my son or daugher was trampled to death, even in a religious festival of great import, I'd be deeply grieved.

**Don Corleone** · 01-12-2006, 19:03

You have 3 million people there, all trying to get into a tight courtyard between sun-up and sun-down. It's unfortunate, but certainly more understandable then a stampede, with casualties, over say a Cabbage Patch Kid or whatever the next 'it' toy is.

Very sad, as the Hajj is supposed to be the pinacle of one's religious life. It'd be the rough equivalent of a devout Roman Catholic getting an audience with the Pope at the Vatican, and the family back home learning that he was shot by the Swiss Guard on his way into the room. My sympathies.