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Thread: When asking a question can get you killed

  1. #1
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Default When asking a question can get you killed

    just a little FYI....

    A prize-winning Iraqi journalist, working for the Guardian, was investigating claims that the US and Britain misused and misappropriated tens of millions of dollars belonging to Iraq. (I assume that’s on top of the $9 billion in Iraqi money an audit last year said we "lost.")

    A few days ago, the director of his film informed US authorities about what he had learned, and asked for an interview.

    Soon afterward, American troops stormed into his home, firing into the room where he, his wife, and children were sleeping, and took videotape that he shot for the film.

    If that isn’t an attempt to intimidate a journalist asking dangerous questions, I can’t imagine what it is. Looks like this thing ahs gone way beyond censoring photos of coffins.

  2. #2
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Cute.

    ...although by what I hear on the precision and accuracy with which Coalition troops often arrest people, it might actually have been unintentional...
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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    The Sword of Rome Member Marcellus's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Why did they shoot shots into the bedroom if its occupants were all sleeping?
    "Look I’ve got my old pledge card a bit battered and crumpled we said we’d provide more turches churches teachers and we have I can remember when people used to say the Japanese are better than us the Germans are better than us the French are better than us well it’s great to be able to say we’re better than them I think Mr Kennedy well we all congratulate on his baby and the Tories are you remembering what I’m remembering boom and bust negative equity remember Mr Howard I mean are you thinking what I’m thinking I’m remembering it’s all a bit wonky isn’t it?"

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    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcellus
    Why did they shoot shots into the bedroom if its occupants were all sleeping?

    To wake them up! Obviously
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

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    The Sword of Rome Member Marcellus's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Oh, well that makes sense. Alarm clocks are so last year. Gunfire all the way!
    "Look I’ve got my old pledge card a bit battered and crumpled we said we’d provide more turches churches teachers and we have I can remember when people used to say the Japanese are better than us the Germans are better than us the French are better than us well it’s great to be able to say we’re better than them I think Mr Kennedy well we all congratulate on his baby and the Tories are you remembering what I’m remembering boom and bust negative equity remember Mr Howard I mean are you thinking what I’m thinking I’m remembering it’s all a bit wonky isn’t it?"

    -Wise words from John Prescott

  6. #6
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    My goverment is full of class * **** ups. If they dont want to say anything about the money grant the interveiw and sidestep the questions. I mean these guys absouletly suck. FDR fooled the whole nation to think he could walk and these cant even cover up lost money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a new low. My goverment has stopped trying





    /edit: complete asterisks to replace partial asterisks
    Last edited by solypsist; 01-15-2006 at 04:51.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

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    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    My goverment is full of class * **** ups. If they dont want to say anything about the money grant the interveiw and sidestep the questions. I mean these guys absouletly suck. FDR fooled the whole nation to think he could walk and these cant even cover up lost money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a new low. My goverment has stopped trying





    /edit: complete asterisks to replace partial asterisks
    SFTS, don't try not to brainwashed to much here. I gurantee you every existing government in the world today isn't perfect. Mistakes happen everywhere, regardless of what people say.



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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost908
    SFTS, don't try not to brainwashed to much here. I gurantee you every existing government in the world today isn't perfect. Mistakes happen everywhere, regardless of what people say.
    Huh? Being perfect and going into a journalist residence and trying to play KGB are two diffrent things. If the goverment dosent want to answer his questions than side step them. The man was a journalist doing his job. Hell they couldve even gone for the thats classifed routine. The Antics they pulled have no place in the American goverment
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Member Member Abdel Hakam's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    What a mess. It used to be easy to explain to my more Anti-American friends from the Middle East that plenty of Americans were wonderful and kind people, and only the policies seemed hostile. What can I say now after Abu Gharib, Falluja, regular shootings of civilians, etc.

    This is not to say the criminals and murderers of Zarqawi's ilk haven't earned their evil reputation. Nor is it to say there are not people in the US Army who seem as though they really like the people of Iraq and want to help.

    But with examples of self-defeating behaviour like this being consistent and prominent, the US is really digging a grave for its credibility. Actually, the grave is probably filled by now. I almost feel bad for the US military which seemed somewhat chivalrous before this war. Now they appear somewhat barbaric and certainly frightening.

    I no longer think an all-volunteer army is a good thing. I know lots of Americans are appalled by these things, and I think if there were more average American people in the military we wouldn't see so many problems, and maybe the whole war wouldn't have come.

    "The Merciful One shows mercy to those who are themselves merciful. So show mercy to whatever is on earth, then He who is in heaven will show mercy to you. "- Muhammed

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    Oni Member Samurai Waki's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Ladies and Gentlemen I announce to you: The Oil Wars. Where Governments play with billion dollar commodities like they are a part of rival mafia's. When someone knows something you don't want them to know, you either extort them for millions of dollars, or whack em'. If this is the way things are gonna be, I think I'll go with the best of the Crime Lords and vote for Don Corleone as the next President.
    Last edited by Samurai Waki; 01-15-2006 at 08:03.

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    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Huh? Being perfect and going into a journalist residence and trying to play KGB are two diffrent things. If the goverment dosent want to answer his questions than side step them. The man was a journalist doing his job. Hell they couldve even gone for the thats classifed routine. The Antics they pulled have no place in the American goverment
    By the sound of it, it's only a couple of people in on this. The highly doubt the entire federal government knew and sponsered this raid. My point was, that there are bad people everywhere, and it isn't just in the US. I guess I'm just tired of everyone complaining about how corrupt the US is, when in fact it really isnt that bad.



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    Narcissist Member Zalmoxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    The joys of dictatorships are so plentiful and diverse, enjoy.
    "Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite." - John Kenneth Galbraith

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    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdel Hakam
    I almost feel bad for the US military which seemed somewhat chivalrous before this war. Now they appear somewhat barbaric and certainly frightening.
    The military is like a gun, reasonably harmless until someone points and pulls the trigger. Blame the politicians, and the top government officials (who are mostly politically appointed), they're the ones doing the killing, even if they don't get their hands dirty.
    Yes, Iraq is peaceful. Go to sleep now. - Adrian II

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost908
    SFTS, don't try not to brainwashed to much here. I gurantee you every existing government in the world today isn't perfect. Mistakes happen everywhere, regardless of what people say.
    Frankly, there's scant little information about this story- try googling it. Zilch about it in the American media... What is out there on the net seems to all be based on the original Guardian story. Sorry, that's not enough information for me to make an informed comment on.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  15. #15

    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Zilch about it in the American media...
    That must be another example of the damned liberal media bias then
    Anyway what was he bothering to research the corrution and mismanagement for , it is already pretty well documented .

  16. #16
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdel Hakam
    What a mess. It used to be easy to explain to my more Anti-American friends from the Middle East that plenty of Americans were wonderful and kind people, and only the policies seemed hostile. What can I say now after Abu Gharib, Falluja, regular shootings of civilians, etc.

    This is not to say the criminals and murderers of Zarqawi's ilk haven't earned their evil reputation. Nor is it to say there are not people in the US Army who seem as though they really like the people of Iraq and want to help.

    But with examples of self-defeating behaviour like this being consistent and prominent, the US is really digging a grave for its credibility. Actually, the grave is probably filled by now. I almost feel bad for the US military which seemed somewhat chivalrous before this war. Now they appear somewhat barbaric and certainly frightening.

    I no longer think an all-volunteer army is a good thing. I know lots of Americans are appalled by these things, and I think if there were more average American people in the military we wouldn't see so many problems, and maybe the whole war wouldn't have come.
    Well said! The US army is gradually degrading in discipline the levels of a typical 30 years war army, which is sad. Plus, the attempt to hide the abuse of money confirms that the Iraq war was, as the world community has believed all along, an affair of laundrying the money of Bush and his friends. Finally, the fact that media in the USA doesn't mention such a major milestone in America's development towards dictatorship is a proof that media is owned by, or indirectly controlled by, the same people who control the USA. Americans - this is the time for you to use your rights to carry guns, and fulfil your obligation towards your nation by revolting against this oppression. This is the time the founding fathers of your nation foresaw would once come.
    Under construction...

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    I'm still waiting for an explanation of where asking a question can get you killed. As it is, noone's got killed.

    It seems this is a story by a biased, anti-American newspaper with no collaboration in other media.

    But don't let that stop you in your quest to find some morsel of a smidgen of a gist of a synopsis of a story somewhere that could be, if you squint and tilt your head during low light levels, construed as proof America is bad.

    Crazed Rabbit
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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Heh. My mother always keeps saying that since the US is functionally immune to the sorts of external invasions that brought down previous hegemons, its eventual end must come through some sort of internal conflict...

    That aside, did you know that not too long ago I read of several Delta Force or similar hush-hush elite unit members being under investigation for overly creative employement of operation funds for such necessities as SUVs and bigger houses back stateside ? Had apparently been going on for a while too...
    But given how absurdly bloated US military expenditure is graft is quite possibly inevitable. Hang enough money before people's eyes and sooner or later their resolve starts cracking.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  19. #19

    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
    As it is, noone's got killed.
    What?

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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    That must be another example of the damned liberal media bias then
    Well, to be honest, the lack of coverage does seem suspicious. If we know anything about our media, it's that they seldom pass up a story critical of the administration.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  21. #21
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Well, to be honest, the lack of coverage does seem suspicious. If we know anything about our media, it's that they seldom pass up a story critical of the administration.
    not

    true

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Your first example was the NYT withholding a story until it could do the most damage (Patriot Act renewal).

    Your second seems to be a plain smear of FNC.

    And I'm still wondering what the actual situation is when asking a question can get you killed.

    Crazed Rabbit
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  23. #23
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    can get you killed - not did get you killed. something about army guys using explosives and firing off weapons blindly while journalists and their families are in their beds definitely puts this in a can kill situation.

    1. the only reason the nyt printed that story was because (did u read the article?) the reporter was going forward with the story in his book anyway and they didnt want to get totally scooped.

    3. for a "smear" there sure a lot of quotes and facts to back up the assertion of being biased towards the current administration.

    both examples show how the media are pro-actively not reporting everything, thus this story not making it to the american media (the reporter was working for a british publication)

    knee-jerk partisan hackery doesnt make the story any less true.
    Last edited by solypsist; 01-16-2006 at 06:57.

  24. #24
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    1. the only reason the nyt printed that story was because (did u red the article?) the reporter was going forward with the story in his book anyway.
    No, I did not 'red the article'. Perhaps that is how you obtain information, and may be why you are so consistently misinformed.
    It was the NYT that said that's why they published it.
    From
    But two journalists, who declined to be identified, said that editors at the paper were actively considering running the story about the wiretaps before Bush's November showdown with Democratic Sen. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts.
    We gather that the NYT wanted to run it as a last minute surprise attack before the election. Why? Surely not for love of Bush. This would mean they held off so they could cause more harm later. Hardly a good example for your argument.

    3. for a "smear" there sure a lot of quotes and facts to back up the assertion of being biased towards the current administration.
    Quotes from 2 disgruntled employees who had an axe to grind because FNC wasn't the typical liberal station. All on a biased site.
    both examples show how the media are pro-actively not reporting everything, thus this story not making it to the american media (the reporter was working for a british publication)
    In your NYT example, news was withheld to cause further damage to Bush. But now news of this alledged incident is out there, and the networks aren't picking it up, perhaps becuase it is inflated or false. Your second example wasn't really an example, and could, at the very best, be used solely to explain why Fox isn't reporting this. But what of CNN, MSNBC, etc.?

    knee-jerk partisan hackery doesnt make the story any less true.
    Really? I'm glad you admit the dubious source and motivation for the article on Fox. I'll go get some hatchet jobs on the Clintons and democrats in general then, and be sure to remind you of that.

    EDIT: Hmm, let's look what Ali Fadhil has to say:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Fadhil
    So was this intimidation or just a typical piece of bungled repression? I don't know and cannot tell, though I have yet to have my tapes returned.
    But don't let the fact that the man supposedly intimidated not being able to tell if it is intimidation stop you from claiming it is! Keep right up on that America=the Great Satan ruled by Bushitlerburton! Let not the facts nor the opinions of those who were there stop you from deciding what happened and why based on your politics!

    Crazed Rabbit
    Last edited by Crazed Rabbit; 01-16-2006 at 07:17.
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  25. #25
    |LGA.3rd|General Clausewitz Member Kaiser of Arabia's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Shot him?

    COME ON!

    AT LEAST use a friggen Air Strike or a convienently placed suicide bomb! Geeze.

    Why do you hate Freedom?
    The US is marching backward to the values of Michael Stivic.

  26. #26
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by solypsist
    Oh man! I just got pwned!
    I'd go find all the links to show the opposite, but hey- I only have another 40-50yrs left to live.
    Besides, it's immaterial my point that it's not being covered anywhere except by the Guardian.

    can get you killed - not did get you killed. something about army guys using explosives and firing off weapons blindly while journalists and their families are in their beds definitely puts this in a can kill situation.
    Yeah, that's what further creates suspicion. Someone tell me, when clearing a house, is it standard practice for the US military to blindly pop off rounds into each room you enter? I'm pretty sure that's not in the manual.

    both examples show how the media are pro-actively not reporting everything, thus this story not making it to the american media (the reporter was working for a british publication)
    Can you even find it in a major British paper other than the Guardian?
    Last edited by Xiahou; 01-16-2006 at 07:56.
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    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    I realise this is difficult for some to accept, but whereas the Guardian does have a soft left editorial stance, that does NOT mean that it is in the habit of making facts up or running unchecked stories.

    Just my advice but I wouldn't bank on the "it never happened" defence.

    And as of today I am officially no longer amazed that certain factions seem to see nothing wrong in American troops behaving like imperial stormtroopers, that is unless the caveats that "If this did happen it raises the most serious questions about the regime we live under" went without saying in some the posts above. SFTS gets the "real American values" award in ths thread.

    (Factoid: In only three of the past 51 years has American military spending as a % of GDP been higher than it is this year. And yet, ironically, America both has no militarily capable enemies at all, (and so should be spending less) and yet STILL lacks the military capability to engage countries posing a moderate threat to her interests, Iran, North Korea, and so isn't even getting value for the billions she does spend. Is the military the most inefficient public sector organisation in the US?)
    "The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag

  28. #28
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    (Factoid: In only three of the past 51 years has American military spending as a % of GDP been higher than it is this year. And yet, ironically, America both has no militarily capable enemies at all, (and so should be spending less) and yet STILL lacks the military capability to engage countries posing a moderate threat to her interests, Iran, North Korea, and so isn't even getting value for the billions she does spend. Is the military the most inefficient public sector organisation in the US?)
    You *do* know who put the concept "military-industrial complex" into common circulation, do you...?

    And I'll just say the efforts of the partisan apologists never cease to amaze me.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  29. #29

    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    A few of my friends were in Iraq during the initial invasion.

    I understand that on at least one occasion they freaked out and just sprayed a place with bullets just in case there was somebody waiting to shoot them.

    I wonder if this is exactly the same and sadly for the journalist in question it happened whilst he was there.

    I'm willing to believe that's far more likely than deliberately targeting journalists.

  30. #30
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: When asking a question can get you killed

    Quote Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
    A few of my friends were in Iraq during the initial invasion.

    I understand that on at least one occasion they freaked out and just sprayed a place with bullets just in case there was somebody waiting to shoot them.

    I wonder if this is exactly the same and sadly for the journalist in question it happened whilst he was there.

    I'm willing to believe that's far more likely than deliberately targeting journalists.
    The problem is, after freaking out and spraying bullets, they stole a video tape.
    Under construction...

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