Old but important question re: population

[SirGrotius]

With BI in mind (same factors as RTW, but now religion as well), what is best to:

Occupy

Enslave

or Exterminate

I'm finding it hard to generate cash flow, and I'm wondering if it's because I put my conquered cities to the sword and therefore have few people to tax.

How does one determine what to do?

Thanks

[Oaty]

Just ask yourself, Do you need this town to be populated/ do you need pop boosts in other towns/ do you have the troop power to occupy this settlement/ Do you need the cash badly/ do I need this city to grow to the next level.

when you answer those, the answer that has the highest priority should tell you what you need to do.

[Reenk Roink]

Yep, It really depends on you situation.

If you are desprately in need of some quick cash, or you have just captured an extremely large city which will have squalor and culture penalties through the roof, then exterminate.

If you capture a very large city which will have high penalties, but don't really need cash immediately, then enslave, as it distributes population to your other cities.

If you capture a small city, then occupy, and build it up.

The main factors when deciding what to do are:

Do I have a large enough garrison to keep public order for the city, and even if I do, will I be using the army to do something else?

Do I need cash fast?

Do I need my other cities to grow?

EDIT: Gah, I didn't see oaty's answer...

[Slicendice]

Exterminate always. They grow back and they have a population boom which gives a happiness bonus and increases rate at which population grows back. You also do not have to garrison as many troops there. The more troops you garrison the more per turn you pay for those troops' annual maintenance fee.

Enslaving is fine but it doesn't remove enough citizens IMO. The city may still riot due to unrest and culture shock. Better to exterminate them and move on more quickly. Also enslaving is terribly tedious. I have to go around moving generals into and out of cities and this takes a long time. Too bad the game doesn't have a little box to click to receive slaves. Putting generals into a city is just busy work and not why I play a computer game.

Occupy? Well I only occupy if I want to make sure the population is unhurt and no buildings are damaged. For instance if I go horde but then want to retake my home city and keep most of the rest of my armies? Then I occupy. There will still be unrest but since I plan on staying there awhile it doesn't matter.

As an aside: Going horde in the first turn means you get extra generals immediately as well as enough armies to defend or deter other oncoming hordes. Occupying your home city often puts you at the population limit for moving to the next level of city. In the case of Sarmatians this means you will be able to build Boshporan infantry which are essential to defeating other hordes.

[SirGrotius]

Very interesting, it does seem as though exterminating would be the most common method of expansion (as counter intuitive as it that may sound).

I can think of a few instances, however, where I might want to enslave.

Will those dispersed people keep their alien culture and religion? E.g. I take Rome as the Alemanni, will dispersing their people send Christians to my other cities or will the game just assimilate them automatically?

[Oaty]

The people don't matter the buildings do in that situation. The people in the city will follow the culture/religion that the buildings dictate. So if you are 100 percent christian in every city an you enslave a pagan town. Boom they automatically become christians in the towns they go to.

[Monarch]

I like to exterminate. Let's say you've jsut got Carthage, well even if it loses three quarters of it's pop it's still got a big enough population to build troops and what have you, plus you get the money.

Only if I'm in a small barbarian useless settlement will I occupy or enslave.

[gardibolt]

Huge cities with a cultural issue, like Carthage, need to be exterminated. But they're the exception. You're almost always better off enslaving or occupying if you can, in the long run. If you exterminate all the time you have a lot of difficulty getting the elite units.

[Doug-Thompson]

The trouble is, you can't look at the city status screen until after the occupy, enslave, exterminate decision is made.

You can send a spy in before besieging the city. That will tell you the "official" religion and the "contentment" level, but so what? You often run into cities that are "officially" pagan but predominately Christian.

Sometimes, if the garrison attacks you and you take over the city without initiating the attack, you can't even look to see if the city has a red, yellow, blue or green "face."

This "life or death" situation is made without the relevant information. I wish you could check the city status screen, then decide its fate.

[Watchman]

Of course, if a city is already big enough for your needs, exterminate away. Once the admin building is up, it's one and the same whether there's 1500 or 50,000 people in there as far as training units goes. 'Course, the 50,000 put out a fair bit more tax money, but...

[SirGrotius]

About how much tax money are pops worth? Is there an absolute correlation? I mean, 10K pops provides you with 500 denari, 20K 1000 denari?

[Oaty]

Population also adds to trade. The more people the more goods they will demand.

[Ordani]

Unless it's immediately adjacent to your capital, will be in the near future, or a major trading port on your side of the Med, exterminate every time. All you need is the keystone Palace building to build whatever you want, so any city that was ever over 24,000 will be able to recruit the best of everything within 5-15 years ... the Palace about the only structure the AI reliably builds.

Significantly lower populations in formerly high pop cities are *very* happy, meaning you can kick them up to maximum tax rate and end up with a moderate growth rate and steady income. Objectively the exterminate option is simply too attractive and should have additional penalties on recruiting and such, but given how squalor functions in this game it is almost necessary.

[orangat]

In the early game, I would stick to occupy since population growth is very important and the capital is near (for extra po?) there should be sufficient generals also to keep po in check.

The mid and late game where control and consolidation is important, enslave and exterminate might be necessary.

[Cras]

I exterminate...
I dont need the city's to increase quick in population because I usually have an area that creats armies for me, 3-5 cities.
From that place I will send my legions to other parts of the world. Sometimes I will create a similar army creation spot where the fighting is going on and I want to expand there...

[SirGrotius]

One thing I've been noticing after I exterminate some cities is that I get a huge bonus to public order after a while--I looked on the city details and I saw "Population boom", is this a function of exterminating or is this due to something else?

Thanks

[TinCow]

One thing I've been noticing after I exterminate some cities is that I get a huge bonus to public order after a while--I looked on the city details and I saw "Population boom", is this a function of exterminating or is this due to something else?

Thanks

This happens in sizable cities with many health and farm improvements that then get exterminated. The reason being that the squalor from the large population is no longer present, yet the buildings that provide the health bonuses are still there. Once you get a sufficiently large growth rate (I think 6 or 7%) you get a pretty hefty bonus to happiness. After all, whether you're Roman or Hun, Egyptian or Celtic, everyone likes a little horizontal boogie.

[SirGrotius]

This happens in sizable cities with many health and farm improvements that then get exterminated. The reason being that the squalor from the large population is no longer present, yet the buildings that provide the health bonuses are still there. Once you get a sufficiently large growth rate (I think 6 or 7%) you get a pretty hefty bonus to happiness. After all, whether you're Roman or Hun, Egyptian or Celtic, everyone likes a little horizontal boogie.

Ha, great, thanks. Another reason to exterminate for certain cities. I've had a couple cities (Ravenna in particular) have a 200% public order at very high taxes, which is pleasing.

[tai4ji2x]

semi-exploit: you can press "esc" and save your game when you're given the "captured settlement" message/prompt/menu. if you don't like the results of your decision, you can reload...