How many spies does it take to change a light bulb!?

**Weebeast** · 01-18-2006, 17:24

there may be a spy bonus one somewhere, i suspect.

Byzantine produces spies with extra valour everywhere.

**Ludens** · 01-18-2006, 19:59

Originally Posted by The Darkhorn

Big C gives a valour bonus to Byz Inf and Katanks.

According to the unit files, Byzantine Infantry doesn't get a valour bonus anywhere. Incidentally, Ottoman Sipahi are indeed the second double entry in the 13th collumn of the unit file. Though I have not tried it myself, I am told that Rum does not give a valour bonus to them (just like Algeria does not give a valour bonus to Berber Camels, because already get one in Morroco).

Originally Posted by Weebeast

Byzantine produces spies with extra valour everywhere.

That collumn actually means something different. The Byzantines get a discount on spies, not a valour bonus.

**Weebeast** · 01-18-2006, 22:34

Damn, we really learn new things everyday lol. I should've scrolled down a little. It's good to know though.

It's kinda weird too that Polish gets a discount on Orthodox bishops when they can't produce them.

**Ludens** · 01-18-2006, 23:01

Originally Posted by Weebeast

It's kinda weird too that Polish gets a discount on Orthodox bishops when they can't produce them.

It's kinda weird that the Polish get an orthodox victory speech as well, or so I was told: never played a Polish campaign.

**sbroadbent** · 01-18-2006, 23:23

Originally Posted by matteus the inbred

however, simply exercising some restraint in the matter of assassins and inquisitors makes the game more even. i wouldn't mind seeing inquisitors unable to try and burn opposing rulers and heirs, as i can't think of any monarchs who met that particular fate historically.

It takes a Grand Inquisitor (with a couple valour), an Atheist ruler, as well as 100% Zeal in the particular province to have at best a 25% chance of frying a ruler. I find normal Inquistors (even with 5+ Valor) to have no chance of success against rulers (other than giving them the Atheist trait).

**ajaxfetish** · 01-19-2006, 06:52

I remember Eat yer Greens modded his game so border forts required a citadel, to give spies and assassins more survivability. I think it worked well for him. It still wouldn't necessarily leave you supervulnerable as your own agents can catch intruders, and if they do they'll valor up and do it ever better.

I've no idea if it's possible but I wonder if there's a way to mod the border fort's chances of catching spies or assassins. Maybe its power could just be toned down a bit, or at least for spies (the AI seems to send many more assassins than spies my way).

Ajax

**NodachiSam** · 01-19-2006, 07:57

Wow Citadels? That's pretty high on the tech tree. I would do maybe requiring castles or something.

**Third spearman from the left** · 01-19-2006, 10:57

How about BTW can be built once you have a keep and BF after you have a citadel. Does anyone know more about eat your greens progress and how well the changes worked for him?

**Geezer57** · 01-19-2006, 19:23

Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

I remember Eat yer Greens modded his game so border forts required a citadel, to give spies and assassins more survivability. I think it worked well for him. It still wouldn't necessarily leave you supervulnerable as your own agents can catch intruders, and if they do they'll valor up and do it ever better.

In my last several campaigns (mostly XL or BKB mods), I've deliberately refused to build Border Forts, only Watchtowers. I protect my provinces with my own agents, starting (of course) with assassins. I usually keep a religious agent (Bishop or Alim), an assassin, and a spy in all areas - with more of each as appropriate where there's a high-value target (my heir, etc.) for the AI. I haven't lost a single decent unit playing this way, only an occasional Bishop or Emmissary, even though the AI has lost hundreds of assassins trying my defenses out.

This approach results in rapid rise in valor for your agents, as they gain stars while performing the defense. I've even taken to escorting my advancing armies with packets of agents - the spies and assassins follow one turn after, emmissaries and religious agents go in on the same turn. Keeps my best generals protected from enemy agents, even on the first turn in a new province.

**ajaxfetish** · 01-21-2006, 01:06

Good plan. I've tried playing without BF's in one or two campaigns and it worked out well, though my system wasn't as elaborate and not quite as successful.

The need for modding would be to reduce border forts in AI lands, to give your guys better chances in hostile territory, though since the AI is unlikely to use as coordinated an agent defence as Geezer does, it'll probably give the player even more of an advantage.

Ajax