EB's educational value

[PSYCHO V]

No i'm not. It was mentioned before on this forum that some of the makers would like it to be used as an educational tool. I'm wondering how theyenvisage that

Gday KoD, our fearless leaders are probably the ones you need to talk to about this. Unfortunately, they are currently enjoying some R&R.

I was wondering how y'all think Eb should be implemented in a history curriculum. The educational value pf EB has been mentioned by some of the members and i've thought about it and was wondering if there already was a clear idea about how this would work.

It may help to get an understanding of exactly what aspect you wish to teach. Is it a generic understanding of the Ancient world? The world between certain dates? Certain cultures, empires, nation states? Commerce? Warfare? Langauge?, etc etc

my2bob

[zakalwe]

I’ve mentioned before that I work doing interpretive projects for a heritage conservation organisation. We own and manage several well known battle-field sites (later dates than RTW), several of which have visitor centres and others which produce teacher’s packs which can include CD-Roms for schools.

There is real potential in the future in the interpretation sector for using computer games as one of the possible media. Currently most touch-screen and CD-Rom games are of an uber-simplistic format. But fly-throughs, reconstructions and first-person walk-abouts are becoming more popular although too expensive still for most organisations. Something like an exactly reconstructed castle based upon the Oblivion engine would be great. Visitors would be able to wander through the virtual reconstruction interacting with objects and asking questions of the inhabitants. They could even be able to take part in simple tasks to demonstrate the running of the castle and medieval life. This approach could work fantastically for visitors to some of our ruined properties where it can be difficult for some to imagine life. They would also work as a pre- and post- visit tool for schools.

Areas where I can see development regarding the RTW engine

- Modding a historic battle to be as closely accurate as possible
- Using the graphics to show visitors the layout of the battle field at the time and the key features – possibly with a voice-over or text.
- Showing the units in action with information about who they were and how they fought
- Recording the battle and how it unfolds from different angles
- Potential for making this interactive in some form by allowing people to take a side and try and influence the outcome. Possibly having someone take each side. There would clearly be real difficulties in people doing this though. It might be possible to allow the visitor to control 1 unit (the genernal unit) with the rest unfolding under the AI
- This could be done through CD-Roms , Touchscreen terminals or Plasma screens

I've discussed this with design companies before and we are just waiting for the right project to move forward with something like thi. Obviously something like this would require the involvement of CA though, but the ethic of EB in sticking to historical accuracy as far as possible is similar to how we interpret our battlefield sites.

[Moros]

Why is my history or latin teacher not as hip as you two?

Yeah, I think Eb can be used in classes. I would love to have had an EB class when we where dealing the period or when we were translating the de bello gallico. I't would appeal a lot of students since it's something different then then just a few pictures and the same old Pompei movie over and over again. (We watched the same pompei movie like 5 times already, every year we watch it.)

[King of the dutch]

Hello Psycho V,

Well thing is in Holland you have 3 levels of education from hijghschool. Only the highest gives acces to university. The middel one to higher professional studies (manager type thingies) and the lowest is mostly for the labour force (in al its forms). Obviously the majority of the kids is in the lowest. This is also where i (am training as a) teach(er). These kids only get 2 years of history in which only the roman empire is a subject of ancient history. Now i (try to) use PPT and stuff to visualise history which i find is the hardest for my students. I myself don't have to try so hard, i like it anyway. These kids though, fairly often reason from the point that we are living now so what does the past matter? Visualising the history is one step in getting them enthousiastic and its a lot easier to buld up an 'historical sense' from there. That's why i posted this question 'coz the educational side of the mod has been mentioned before and i wanted to know in what context that would be. Playing a campiagn in class seems a bit farfetched so i was wondering if any other idea's were around.

As to aspects i am teaching at the moment (which will be the only ancient history they'll get) this is 1§ about Holland around that time (live, gods, means of living). 1§ about live in Rome (slaves, landowners, who's boss in the Roman empire). 1§ about defence of the roman empire (which i used pictures for made in R:TW) and also that the empire is now (suddenly) ruled by an emperor. 1§ about roman culture, 'romanizing' and then 1§ about the collapse and all its consequences. So...it's really short.

any suggestions welcome!



grtz kotd

[zakalwe]

Personally i see the potential in learning with EB in its current form as primarily through indirect learning and lifelong learning rather than formal education. There are a hell of alot of people who's interest in history has been sparked by games such as this. I would guess that there are alot of people who would never have thought of picking up a classical history book before playing the game. I know i tend to do this - read a book about D-Day while playing Brothers in Arms, have recently bought a book on the Pacific Front while playing Heroes fo the Pacific.

In a formalised classroom setting it is slightly more difficult. With the engine it would certainly be possible to produce a specific CD-Rom including powerpoint lesson plans. However this would require a fair bit of work either by enthusiastic amateurs or a professional design agency

[Simetrical]

Something like an exactly reconstructed castle based upon the Oblivion engine would be great. Visitors would be able to wander through the virtual reconstruction interacting with objects and asking questions of the inhabitants. They could even be able to take part in simple tasks to demonstrate the running of the castle and medieval life. This approach could work fantastically for visitors to some of our ruined properties where it can be difficult for some to imagine life. They would also work as a pre- and post- visit tool for schools.

And for maximum effect, use those glasses they're coming out with now (still expensive, though) that allow you to paste a digital HUD over your surroundings, or just VR goggles generally. Then it would be super-immersive virtual reality, with visual and aural stimuli being provided by the headset and tactile and (potentially) olfactory stimuli being provided by the actual surroundings. That's far from practical at the moment, but damn, people would pay a lot to experience that.

As for edutainment in general, most of it is pretty damn boring. The one really successful educational video game I know of is Oregon Trail and its sequels. I used to love that game when I was young. To this day Oregon is one of about 15 or 20 states whose location I could pin down on a map. (Yeah, I'm bad at geography, STFU.)

Alexander probably deserves mention as a major film that was (I'm told) highly realistic, although by most accounts it was lousy as a movie. Their chief historical consultant asked for no payment except to be one of the horsemen near the front in every Macedonian cavalry charge.

[tk-421]

I've used screenshots from RTR (EB wasn't out yet) to show different formations as part of a school project.

Alexander probably deserves mention as a major film that was (I'm told) highly realistic, although by most accounts it was lousy as a movie. Their chief historical consultant asked for no payment except to be one of the horsemen near the front in every Macedonian cavalry charge.

I've only seen the last few minutes of the movie. The greek soldier's clothing looked pretty accurate, with the linen armoer and the pikes, but I'm not an expert on Greek military equipment. What I know comes only from the History Channel, EB, and a couple of books. Everything else that I saw looked pretty terrible. The battle that I think was Hydaspes involved no river. There's something about Alexander charging and Indian war elephant in ultra slow motion that seemed a bit corny. Then Alexander got wounded and everything turned red. Then I changed the channel.

[Mr Jones]

i also used shots from rtr to show how the romans and macedonians fought (eg formations and troop types, basic tactics(hammer and anvil)) for a school assignment. wish eb had of been out at the time though.

[Chester]

I used EB for my thesis on classical antiquity at the Sorbonne.

[Radier]

I only used EB for the speech I am about to have in two hours in front of the class.