Intelligent Design is not science

[solypsist]

too bad it's not the the catholics that want ID taught in schools. last time i checked, the majority of conservative christians didn't take their cues from the pope.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

i used to live near some Plimouth Bretheren who hold the same belief, but I, like most christians accept evolution as a tool used by god. If the parents want their children to be taught the ''theory'' they should teach it to them themselves, i can't help but feel that instead they want ID taught alongside Evolution in order to stengthen their arguments against it.

[Abdel Hakam]

I am happy for Christianity to hear the Vatican doesn't support this strange notion.

In the Qur'an, God' names is The Creator. He is also named something translatable as The Evolver. It also mentions His creating man in "diverse stages", and that nature is filled with "signs for those possesed of minds" and yet we still have some Muslim creationists.

What the attraction is I don't know. Do they think the TVs in their living room were put there by God without any natural mechanism? It's like they just want God to do everything for them. Probably these beliefs are the result of lazy preachers who don't read thoroughly, the same source of the stupidities done in the name of Islam.

I wonder if there are Jewish creationists? Rabbis seem in general more scholarly and knowledgable in terms of language than the sort of preachers who support creationism, so I would tend to doubt it.

[Samurai Waki]

There are many people in this world that have a very low, and self indulgent opinion of god.

My Favorite ID discussion was about the dinosaurs the so called "Steve Martin Theory" where god put bones into the earth to trick humans into believing that there are demons, just because hes a wild and crazy guy.

[Sheep]

Intelligent design is to science what atheism is to religion. Anathema.


Besides, everyone knows the Earth was actually created in a designer planet factory on the orders of a giant computer and some mice in order to calculate the Answer to the Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.

[Reenk Roink]

I am happy for Christianity to hear the Vatican doesn't support this strange notion.

In the Qur'an, God' names is The Creator. He is also named something translatable as The Evolver. It also mentions His creating man in "diverse stages", and that nature is filled with "signs for those possesed of minds" and yet we still have some Muslim creationists.

What the attraction is I don't know. Do they think the TVs in their living room were put there by God without any natural mechanism? It's like they just want God to do everything for them. Probably these beliefs are the result of lazy preachers who don't read thoroughly, the same source of the stupidities done in the name of Islam.

I wonder if there are Jewish creationists? Rabbis seem in general more scholarly and knowledgable in terms of language than the sort of preachers who support creationism, so I would tend to doubt it.

My sister is a convert to Islam and a muslim creationist .

[Tribesman]

My Favorite ID discussion was about the dinosaurs the so called "Steve Martin Theory" where god put bones into the earth to trick humans into believing that there are demons, just because hes a wild and crazy guy.

Anyone read the Pratcett book where some "creators" got in a little trouble by adding digital watches and stop nuclear testing signs into the fossil deposits .

[BDC]

My Favorite ID discussion was about the dinosaurs the so called "Steve Martin Theory" where god put bones into the earth to trick humans into believing that there are demons, just because hes a wild and crazy guy.

Anyone read the Pratcett book where some "creators" got in a little trouble by adding digital watches and stop nuclear testing signs into the fossil deposits .

Yeah, great story.

In one of his Discworld novels the Discworld's natural life all comes from a sandwhich that Rincewind drops after the Creator gives it to him.

[Kralizec]

I finished reading The Light Fantastic...Pratchett has some weird imagination

[Abdel Hakam]

My sister is a convert to Islam and a muslim creationist .

To Reenk Roink,

Congratulations to her!!

But seriously, if she has these beliefs, probably it's her masjid (mosque) and not really her fault. There is only one masjid where I live right now, and it's not so good so I just pray by myself most of the time. I have never been to a masjid I like in the West. Most Islamic institutions in the west are far more "fundamentalist" than those I know from Syria for some reason. Although I think the "fundamentalists" actually excell at abandoning or ignoring the fundamentals of Islam, and I would rather call them innovative liberals!

People in the West consider me a liberal Muslim, but everything I believe in is from the Qur'an and Sunnah. There are a lot of tricks for power hungry imams possible with a semitic language, where context is very important and words can have dozens of meanings. Beware of translations!!

I would suggest your sister, in accordance with the Qur'an, listen less to the clerics and study classical Arabic so she can read and understand the religion herself. It is between her and Allah and no one should tell her what the Qur'an means. They should only explain the FULL definitions of words and offer opinions and suggest possibilities. Feel free to give her my email address:

a_h_mubarak@yahoo.com

There are LOTS of traps for converts to fall into, so if you are worried I can give her advice on alternative Imams, scholars of law, and ways to approach the Qur'an. There are forms of Islam that are and have always been very progressive and allow actual thought!!

May everyone forgive this rather off-topic rant but I hate to see people be mislead by humans in the name of Allah.

[ajaxfetish]

too bad it's not the the catholics that want ID taught in schools. last time i checked, the majority of conservative christians didn't take their cues from the pope.

Exactly. The Vatican (at least under John Paul 2) is actually quite open to evolution and science in general. I don't know if that will stay the same under Benedict, but they have nothing to do with the introduction of ID theory and no reason to support it.

Personally I have no problem with ID being taught in a religion course as long as it is kept out of science classes. I might even accept its teaching in a science course as long as Flying Spaghetti Monsterism was taught right alongside it.

Ajax

[Navaros]

This just goes to further prove that the Catholic Church is an Apostate Church with zero credibility. It does not represent God, Jesus, or anything that is Holy. In fact it has committed the one unforgivable sin with it's ludicrous pro-evoution propaganda: committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying that the Word of God is a lie.

[InsaneApache]

May they all burn in hell...that's after they've been stoned for heresy....

[Papewaio]

This just goes to further prove that the Catholic Church is an Apostate Church with zero credibility. It does not represent God, Jesus, or anything that is Holy. In fact it has committed the one unforgivable sin with it's ludicrous pro-evoution propaganda: committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying that the Word of God is a lie.

God is a being of light, truth and love... hardly make sense for such a being to lie or create a web of lies.

Are you saying that God doesn't have the capacity to create a Universe that will evolve creatures that seek Him out?

[Navaros]

Are you saying that God doesn't have the capacity to create a Universe that will evolve creatures that seek Him out?

Your question is a moot point because that is not what God did and the Bible is very explicitly clear about that.

[Kralizec]

Nav: are you saying God isn't capable of writing up stories just to make fun of people like you?

[Papewaio]

Your question is a moot point because that is not what God did and the Bible is very explicitly clear about that.

Are you sure?

I thought in Genesis God created light, water and land.

Then He created plants, then animals, the last created was man.

According to evolution first came the lower order plants, then animals, the latest to evolve was man.

Surely a Divine being could have loaded the dice from time to time?

[Reenk Roink]

I smell a creation/evolution debate...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This just goes to further prove that the Catholic Church is an Apostate Church with zero credibility. It does not represent God, Jesus, or anything that is Holy. In fact it has committed the one unforgivable sin with it's ludicrous pro-evoution propaganda: committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying that the Word of God is a lie.

I disagree with this statement completely.

Our Apostolic tradition is unbroken and directly linked to Peter, hence to Jesus himself.

Holy Mother Church does not "represent" God or Jesus or the Spirit -- the almighty does not require such. It is an embodiment of that Spirit and a shared community of faith in the redemption given us through Christ's death and ressurection.

At no point has the Church called the Word of God a lie, and re-affirms regularly its belief in the spiritual power of that Word.

[Strike For The South]

Ive honestly stopped caring

[Byzantine Mercenary]

This just goes to further prove that the Catholic Church is an Apostate Church with zero credibility. It does not represent God, Jesus, or anything that is Holy. In fact it has committed the one unforgivable sin with it's ludicrous pro-evoution propaganda: committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying that the Word of God is a lie.

Genesis is very open to interpretation, and gets the order of species evolving right as well as the beggining of the univiverse.

Personnally i think god is clever and powerful enough to create the world and us through evolution, haveing created a universe that would bring about life on earth. he is after all omnipitant!

[Sheep]

Also, ID and creationism are actually different ideas, when looked at closer.

Right... creationists believe all life was created by God, and ID theorists believe all life was created by some mysterious unnamed intelligence, possibly God if that's your fancy.

ID is simply creationism using carefully chosen neutral science-y language. It's politically correct creationism.

ID says that some biological systems are too complex to have evolved on their own, so they must have been designed. Unsurprisingly, they have yet to actually identify such a system. The ironic thing is that every time they think they have, all they have done is provide a target for future research which inevitably ends up discovering that the complexity is not so irreducible after all. In fact, the only way 'irreducible complexity' remains irreducible is if nobody researches it... which is exactly what ID theorists are shooting for. ID theory basically is asking scientists to run up the white flag, stop looking for answers in nature, and just accept a supernatural explanation. It's not science. In fact it's anti-science.

Genesis is very open to interpretation, and gets the order of species evolving right

How do you figure? You think our species was the most recent species to evolve?

[Byzantine Mercenary]

How do you figure? You think our species was the most recent species to evolve?

course not, but most sprecies were before us and we are quite a young species arn't we?

[BDC]

Genesis is very open to interpretation, and gets the order of species evolving right as well as the beggining of the univiverse.

Personnally i think god is clever and powerful enough to create the world and us through evolution, haveing created a universe that would bring about life on earth. he is after all omnipitant!

Not according to Creationists. Creating a world things work in was far too hard, so he cheated.

The heathens.

:)

[drone]

Just to liven this one up again, looks like us backwoods yokels here in the US aren't the only ones dissing evolution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

I had no idea this disease had spread across the pond...

[Reenk Roink]

I had no idea this disease had spread across the pond...

You evolutionists are just like creationists .

Still, it is surprising, I heard that the peoples back in the old continent didn't even go to church anymore...

[BDC]

Just to liven this one up again, looks like us backwoods yokels here in the US aren't the only ones dissing evolution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

I had no idea this disease had spread across the pond...

I would like to point out that a third of Britain fails their GCSEs, which is quite an impressive act when you it was recently pointed out that a pass (A to C grade) in English didn't actually mean you were functionarily literate.

Which is probably why referendums don't happen here much.

[Viking]

Just to liven this one up again, looks like us backwoods yokels here in the US aren't the only ones dissing evolution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

I had no idea this disease had spread across the pond...