Medieval II: Total War Official Thread

[King Henry V]

I just have one thing to say to CA: Please, just take your time with this game. It is a perfect era, a wonderful engine and the original MTW was fantastic. However, don't rush the game for the Christmas market so that we all get a half baked product. I don't mind waiting three months extra in exchange for a super and almost bugless game.
Thank you!

[ShadesWolf]

All I can say is WOW

This is an excellent time period with so many possibilities.

[PFJ_bejazuz]

*rolls up sleeves*

*falls to knees*

"PLEASE LET IT WORK AS AN MP EXPERIENCE LIKE MTW1"

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(& as to Islamic armies - I've always said their units should be much larger than european equivalents)

[KukriKhan]

Many thanks to all for the excellent response. Now that we have a dedicated forum for Medi2, we'll move this thread there.

Junior Members are able to respond there, so new guys: don't be shy.

[Mount Suribachi]

I seriously doubt we'll see MTW2 in Q4 2006 - all games release dates slip. I remember the howling when RTW was slipping...

Things that have piqued my intrest

- The "individual" appearance of soldiers by mixing and matching different body parts

- The Blood and dirt on soldiers as the battle wears on

- The general jaw-droppingness of the graphics

- The Papacy. They sound very much like the Senate from RTW. The ability to promote Bishops to Cardinal and even intruegue to elect your own pope is reminiscant of the Cursus Honorum from RTW. It also sounds like the Pope will give you missions, much like the senate.

- Scotland as playable faction. The incessant whinging from the jocks in the run up to MTW was unbearable. One less thing to worry about

- The return of assination movies - yay!

Things that cause me to raise an eyebrow

- The "combo-moves". As someone else pointed out, sounds a little to consoley, but if done properly could actually be really cool.

- Milan as a playable faction, but not Genoa????

Like everyone else says, I also want better AI, better diplomacy, and battles that last longer than 5 minutes.

As for the 2 sub-threads in here

Trebuchets - there was a superb documentary on TV here a few years ago. They built a giant "castle wall" using traditional medieval techniques, and got 2 teams to build a trebuchet each, with which they were to try and knock down said wall. One team, lead by an academic, built theirs without wheels. The academic was a real arrogant, conceited ****. He sneered at any suggestion that Trebuchets had wheels and thus built his without them. The other team was lead by a (non-academic) expert in mediaval weapons and their construction. Based upon medieval sources showing Trebs with wheels, he built his with wheels.

And whaddya know? The wheeled Trebuchet significantly out-ranged the non-wheeled one. And, just as importantly, it out-ranged the longbow as well, something that I'm sure the Treb crew would have appreciated. The programme did an excellent job of explaining the physics of why the wheeled Treb had a longer range, even having slo-mo footage of a little model Treb to demonstrate. IIRC it went backwards, then as the arm approached the release point started moving forwards, giving the projectile additional impetus as it was launched.

They also had cameras set up on the "castle wall" which filmed the rocks as they flew towards to the wall, and let me tell you it was damn scary! Very good program.


Islamic Armies - I just wanted to make a point about the fall of Constantinople. x_DANGEr seemed to think that it fell due to the sheer heroism & bravery of the Ottoman armies. Which neglects 2 key issues.

1) The Ottomans weren't the first to take Constantinople. The infamous 4th Crusade under the leadership of the blind octagenerian Doge of Venice, Enrico Dandolo, some 250 years previously

2) Perhaps the biggest single factor in the taking of Constantinople by Mehmet II was that he had a great big cannon with which to batter down the walls. A cannon designed and built incidentally by a German. Go figure.

[cutepuppy]

- Milan as a playable faction, but not Genoa????

Well, most people seem to forget that Milan was more of a political power, while genoa was a naval trade power. Milan was the leading city of the lombard league, which defeated the HRE several times, and from the second half of the 14th century (Sforza and Viscont families), Milan had some very close ties with some royal dynasties. The duke of milan was regarded as one of the most important men of europe, and Milan was one of the biggest cities in europe (I think second, just after paris) from the second half of the 13th century, with a population of up to 100000 people. I think the developpers made a very wise decision by choosing Milan over Genoa.

[PFJ_bejazuz]

Like everyone else says, I also want better AI, better diplomacy, and battles that last longer than 5 minutes.

*cough* & maps as big as MTW1

Trebuchets - there was a superb documentary on TV here a few years ago. They built a giant "castle wall" using traditional medieval techniques, and got 2 teams to build a trebuchet each, with which they were to try and knock down said wall. One team, lead by an academic, built theirs without wheels. The academic was a real arrogant, conceited ****. He sneered at any suggestion that Trebuchets had wheels and thus built his without them. The other team was lead by a (non-academic) expert in mediaval weapons and their construction. Based upon medieval sources showing Trebs with wheels, he built his with wheels.

And whaddya know? The wheeled Trebuchet significantly out-ranged the non-wheeled one. And, just as importantly, it out-ranged the longbow as well, something that I'm sure the Treb crew would have appreciated. The programme did an excellent job of explaining the physics of why the wheeled Treb had a longer range, even having slo-mo footage of a little model Treb to demonstrate. IIRC it went backwards, then as the arm approached the release point started moving forwards, giving the projectile additional impetus as it was launched.

They also had cameras set up on the "castle wall" which filmed the rocks as they flew towards to the wall, and let me tell you it was damn scary! Very good program.

top show - trying to find the URL i had of an excellent page someone on britarch put up with pics & diagrams of said same

[L'Impresario]

Talking about Constantipole made me think about how exactly will MTW II handle specific cities (and their fortifications). Will there be historical map layouts, esp. for cities whose exact features are extremely well known, such as Jerusalem, Constantinople, Granada etc (maybe even Buda and Pest).

1) The Ottomans weren't the first to take Constantinople. The infamous 4th Crusade under the leadership of the blind octagenerian Doge of Venice, Enrico Dandolo, some 250 years previously

Well, at least it wasn't a real siege with a straightforward attack, like the Ottomans had to face, nor was it that expected. Ofcourse pre-1204 Byzantium was in a considerably better position than in 1453, but still..

Just a minor correction

A cannon designed and built incidentally by a German.

Urban was Hungarian;)

EDIT: If anyone knows the name of that program, please do mention it ASAP:)

[Kraxis]

Thinking about the wheels makes sense now...

Simple physics tells you that when you throw back weight you are propelled forwards. Now make a 'light' frame and add a heavy weight that swings down and backwards. The frame will, if on practical wheels, move forwards...
Now I didn't think of this as I didn't believe the wheels would be rolling well enough for this, or the weight to be propelled far enough backwards to send the frame forwards. But obviously I was wrong.

[Martok]

Talking about Constantipole made me think about how exactly will MTW II handle specific cities (and their fortifications). Will there be historical map layouts, esp. for cities whose exact features are extremely well known, such as Jerusalem, Constantinople, Granada etc (maybe even Buda and Pest).

This is something that has me concerned/excited as well. I would like all major cities to look as historically accurate as is *reasonably* possible. I realize that from a gameplay perspective, cities that are particularly large (such as Constantinople, Jerusalem, and Cairo) cannot be shown as their true size. Otherwise whichever faction that owned these cities at the beginning of the game would have a ridiculous and unfair advantage--particularly in terms of wealth and manpower. I still hope, however, that these "uber-cities" (for want of a better term) will at least have some of their distinctive features on the map.

Some examples: Cairo would have the Great Mosque and the Caliph's Palace. Constantinople would have the Imperial Palace and the Haga Sofia. Jerusalem would have the Wailing Wall, the Dome of the Rock, and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Rome would have St. Peter's Basilica and the Vatican. London would have the Tower of London and Westminster Abbey. Paris would have Notre Dame. (Yes, I know Rome, London, and Paris were nowhere near as big as the other three back then; I just included them because they're also well-known examples of what I'm referring to.)

Yes, I realize at least some of these structures either didn't exist yet in 1080, and/or were still being constructed. Therefore, I'm hoping these structures appear in their respective cities' build queues once the correct year has arrived.

[Mount Suribachi]

Just a minor correction


Urban was Hungarian;)

Well, my reference states that he was a German - the point is, he wasn't a Muslim.

A little correction, he's called Mohammad (el-fateh).

I've honestly never seen him referred to as Mohammad - only ever as Mehmet. Whereas Mohammed the Prophet is always referred to in English as Mohammed (or Muhammed).

And what I insist on being a huge factor of taking Constantinople, was the urging of muslims, they have sieged it many times, attacked it many times and lost many times. But still, they kept attacking it.

Your argument is contradictory. They besieged Constantinople many times, yet repeatedly failed - was their faith-inspired-bravery any the less the previous times? Or was it that when Constantinople finally fell that the Byzantine Empire was on its last legs, that the Ottoman Empire was on the rise, that they were led by highly talented and ambitious young man, and that they had a great big cannon with which to knock down the walls.

You need to look at things a bit more objectively. For every Islamic victory that you claim was won by their religious zeal, the good folks here at the Org can name you 2 defeats.

[jean_s]

great news indeed :)

I want to see the maaaapppp :D

[x-dANGEr]

Your argument is contradictory. They besieged Constantinople many times, yet repeatedly failed - was their faith-inspired-bravery any the less the previous times? Or was it that when Constantinople finally fell that the Byzantine Empire was on its last legs, that the Ottoman Empire was on the rise, that they were led by highly talented and ambitious young man, and that they had a great big cannon with which to knock down the walls.

You need to look at things a bit more objectively. For every Islamic victory that you claim was won by their religious zeal, the good folks here at the Org can name you 2 defeats.

I don't know where you can find that, it's a matter of miss-understanding what's written I believe (Or miss-clarification). As Kraxis just cut all the words I said putting it in one word, determination. I don't know what has got me their, but it surely has got nothing to do with morale. And really, what's the point of this "For every Islamic victory that you claim was won by their religious zeal, the good folks here at the Org can name you 2 defeats." What need I understand from it? And if that really happened, then Islam wouldn't have gone where it has, would it? Islamic nation kept going well till the late turkish govermont started increasing taxes more and more.. Pushing the people to a rebellion, allied with UK + France, of course, UK + France had betrayed the treaty and shared the Arabic countries among them (Along with Italy maybe) till rebellions repelled them one by one, and till UK gave Palestine to Jews and leaving us apart. No offence intended, just some bad feelings to those who 'support' those actions.

[x-dANGEr]

Islamic Armies - I just wanted to make a point about the fall of Constantinople. x_DANGEr seemed to think that it fell due to the sheer heroism & bravery of the Ottoman armies. Which neglects 2 key issues.

1) The Ottomans weren't the first to take Constantinople. The infamous 4th Crusade under the leadership of the blind octagenerian Doge of Venice, Enrico Dandolo, some 250 years previously

2) Perhaps the biggest single factor in the taking of Constantinople by Mehmet II was that he had a great big cannon with which to batter down the walls. A cannon designed and built incidentally by a German. Go figure.

A little correction, he's called Mohammad (el-fateh). And what I insist on being a huge factor of taking Constantinople, was the urging of muslims, they have sieged it many times, attacked it many times and lost many times. But still, they kept attacking it.

[King Henry V]

And what I insist on being a huge factor of taking Constantinople, was the urging of muslims, they have sieged it many times, attacked it many times and lost many times. But still, they kept attacking it.

Hmmm, I think you maybe exaggerating the case a bit there. Admittedly the Muslim armies besieged Constantinople three times in the space of a few years (674, 674, 717) but that was during the peak of the full fervour that always accompanies a new religion. However, after 717 it would be over seven hundred years until the next time Constantinople would be besieged by a Muslim army and the main reason for those sieges was that the Byzantine Empire, with its stronghold of Constantinople, remained a threat to the Ottomans, not because of the Empire' power, but because it was able to send emissaries to the West with the same message: "Help, foul heathens are destroying a Christian country-Christians in danger, please send crusade."
It was not, as you seem to make out, that almost every generation the Muslims would send an army to capture Constantinople.