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Thread: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

  1. #151
    That's what SHE said... Member Seydlitz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    An interesting point. I am (studying to become) a high school history teacher myself. But tell me, what use is it to a high school kid of lets say 'practical level'
    (no not dumb they just hate reading) to know that the romans actually divided their armies like that? ('knowledge' provided by CA btw). In fact, what's important about knowing that alexanders troops were armed in that way? To continue why should there be such an emphasis on the ancient period in general. All parts of history are equally important. Given' the time i (we) have in school to teach numerous subjects i fail to see the significance of the info you just provided. The 'hollywoodesque nature' of history is (by myself) employed to enhance the subject. Which basicly means i exaggerate a little. (no i don't purposly distort history, on the contrary). Don't forget that if you're not on eof 'us' history lovers the subject is quite boring and all about dead people. We live in the now come on. If you apply this to CA then i don't find it surprising they employ a less specialized version of history. I agree it shouldn't be wrong though but for a game a little artistic freedom is (imho) not so bad.

    grtz kotd

    btw:
    manga is wicked (and some is even historically accurate)

    Well, what you just said is what I was trying to say! Most people don't like history, especially kids. I just came out of High School (In The Netherlands actually ) and half of my friends stopped taking history as soon as they could. One of my friends thinks it's ridiculous that I actually read history books because ,like you said, "It's all about dead people anyways. So who cares?". And yeah, he's not a dumb kid at all. He, like most other people, just really dosn't care about history.

    So that means not only that most people wouldn't even notice CA's mistakes, but also what CA was showing is just what everyone else thinks the period looks like. It's what's 'true' for about 90% of it's customers, as far as they know anyways. And had they attempted to bring it to 'our' standards of historical knowledge, they would have lost many customers since the customers just wouldn't understand what CA was giving them. Mainly because they don't really care.

    And I meant no insult to History teachers either. They are usually the more open-minded teachers, and my High School history teacher is still my favorite teacher ever.

    Cheers,
    - Seyd

    (And I'm sure there is cool manga. It's just that it gets boring when that's all people read, draw or talk about. They have no interest in anything that dosn't come from Japan, which I find a bit ridiculous.)

  2. #152
    Scruffy Looking Nerf Herder Member Steppe Merc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Also, some people are making it sound like there’s two alternatives – one is the accuracte depiction of 39 different types of Parthian cavalry and the other is Marvelous Magical Mighty Mystics of Mazda armed with +3 enchanted swords of slaying. CA will most likely give us something in the middle.
    Well there weren't really 39 types. I'd settle for a few logical variations of the two main types they had (in a published game, at least), without potraying them as Arabs.

    "But if you should fall you fall alone,
    If you should stand then who's to guide you?
    If I knew the way I would take you home."
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  3. #153
    VOXIFEX MAXIMVS Member Shigawire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Seydlitz
    (And I'm sure there is cool manga. It's just that it gets boring when that's all people read, draw or talk about. They have no interest in anything that dosn't come from Japan, which I find a bit ridiculous.)
    A bit OT here.. but...
    My take on "manga" is that it's an unoriginal "format" artform. Manga represents a specific style of proportions and animation. There are many variations in the manga "genre", but it is typified by its large eyes and small mouths, as well as exaggerated items such as weapons. Also typified by incredibly gaudy choreography of character-animations, combined with undetailed and bland parallax background animations.

    What I find ridiculous, as a 3d artist, is all the people who say "I want to draw a manga character" or tutorials teaching you "How to model a manga character". WHY? It's a pigeon-holing process. You pigeon-hole your artistic idea through an A4 standard format like "anime".

    I usually compare this to pressing a piece of meat through a grinder, forcing the meat into many tiny uniform strips, forever ruining the original consistency of the meat. (thus forever corrupting the original artform you had in your head)
    It's almost like saying "How do I draw a Picasso character?"

    It's in human (and primate) nature to imitate what others do. And there are a lot of imitators out there, and few innovators. But I prefer artforms from the innovators, and there is actually enough of that around that I don't need the massproduced manga to entertain myself.
    Last edited by Shigawire; 01-25-2006 at 06:02.


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  4. #154

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    MTW 2 will be fine. There are a few clues already that historical accuracy will be better or just as good as MTW 1 (Which was fine in general). If you read the IGN interview they seem to be more knowledge of medieval weapons, the photos and soldiers look more gritty non-vanilla, and there are 100+ more units from MTW 1, possibly meaning they have done a lot more research.


    I have trust that there wise enough to learn from there mistakes, and seeing that this is a sequel that has been under development/in-direct development for a very long time, they will focus more on details. IMO RTW seems to have been rushed (Creating 3d battles, maps, and full cities takes a lot of effort to develop and create in two years), the details (Like historical accuracy) had to take a backseat.

    You people should smile and not be doubtful, MTW 2 will be a great game.
    Last edited by Three63; 01-25-2006 at 06:48.

  5. #155

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigawire
    A bit OT here.. but...
    My take on "manga" is that it's an unoriginal "format" artform. Manga represents a specific style of proportions and animation. There are many variations in the manga "genre", but it is typified by its large eyes and small mouths, as well as exaggerated items such as weapons. Also typified by incredibly gaudy choreography of character-animations, combined with undetailed and bland parallax background animations.

    What I find ridiculous, as a 3d artist, is all the people who say "I want to draw a manga character" or tutorials teaching you "How to model a manga character". WHY? It's a pigeon-holing process. You pigeon-hole your artistic idea through an A4 standard format like "anime".

    I usually compare this to pressing a piece of meat through a grinder, forcing the meat into many tiny uniform strips, forever ruining the original consistency of the meat. (thus forever corrupting the original artform you had in your head)
    It's almost like saying "How do I draw a Picasso character?"

    It's in human (and primate) nature to imitate what others do. And there are a lot of imitators out there, and few innovators. But I prefer artforms from the innovators, and there is actually enough of that around that I don't need the massproduced manga to entertain myself.
    Essentially manga is just a cartoon language that has grown to huge levels of popularity, I'd imagine because it deals with more mature subjects (as in its not uncommon to see breasts, violence and gore).

    By cartoon language I mean a drawing system that shows a clear distinctive style, for example Genndy Tartakovsky has a pretty distinct style in his Star Wars: Clone Wars cartoons, or Samurai Jack cartoons or the comic artist Cam Kennedy, who has his own distinct style, as seen is dark empire or judge dredd.

    Whats funny is the way that Western comics and cartoons seem to be more diverse in terms of their cartoon languages, whereas almost all Japanese comic books and cartoons I've seen appear to be drawn in the exact same cartoon langauge.

    Oh well, It will die a death sooner or later.

    http://www.seizurerobots.com/

  6. #156

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba
    Well, it was looking good until I saw this.

    Troops block and parry attack moves and string together deadly combo attacks and finishing moves before scanning the battlefield for their next kill.


    God almighty.
    They are probably just implimenting a system like Relic did in Dawn of War, where by in hand to hand combat soldiers and war machines pulled off special moves every now and then and had finishing moves. Made the games hand to hand combat some of the best i have ever seen in a stratergy game, you dont know fun untill you see a marine stab something, and the victin actualy gets caught on the knife and the marine has to kick him off with his boot...or the famouse Giant Robot Impaling Oponent On Big Spike And Swinging Him Round Like A Chewtoy move.

  7. #157
    Egomaniac sexpert Member Dux Corvanus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Oh, that's good, then, if purpose is to improve and add variety to animations. Even so, I hope they make it subtle and natural, and don't put too much weight in spectacular, effectist moves. I can't imagine 2000 guys sewing heads, jumping like Brad Pitt in Troya, using their pikes as Jackie Chan or Neo in Matrix... ehem...!!!

  8. #158
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Variation in animation is fine but it will increase the greatest problem with Total War, what I like to call:

    "Go on my son!" Syndrome. Thats when you sit peering intently at your screen watching one hard-arsed bastard with a war axe outnumbered ten to one and when he finally dies you look up to realise the rest of your army are dog food.

    There was nothing wrong with RTW, the historical accuracy wasn't all that bad in a general sense, as said above, Gladiator has defined the Romans for this generation. So we have to live with it.

    MTW2 will rock, even if you have to fight Dragons.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  9. #159
    VOXIFEX MAXIMVS Member Shigawire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    I believe what CA said about the animations in M2TW, is what we in the CG-language call "NLA" or "Non-Linear Animation".

    If they indeed have a system closer to NLA, that will mean much smoother transitions between animations. No longer will the interpolation between animation-clips look abrupt, but rather, they will look entirely seamless. NLA will allow fancier moves to be carried out by the soldiers, without sacrificing the overall feel of smoothness in the "choreography" (if you can call it that).
    And I hope that is what it means.

    But it could also mean that they simply have more fancier animations, and no improvements to the animation engine.

    I'm optimistic, so my bet is on the former.
    Last edited by Shigawire; 01-25-2006 at 23:54.


    "To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will its true nature be seen." -The Amtal Rule, DUNE

  10. #160
    Member Member King of the dutch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    @shigawire plz read this:

    Origins

    Literally translated, manga means "random (or whimsical) pictures". The word first came into common usage after the publication of the 19th century Hokusai Manga, containing assorted drawings from the sketchbook of the famous ukiyo-e artist Hokusai. However, gi-ga (lit. "funny pictures") drawn in the 12th century by various artists contain many manga-like qualities such as emphasis on story and simple, artistic lines.

    Manga developed from a mixture of ukiyo-e and Western art movements. When the United States began trading with Japan, Japan tried to modernise itself and catch up with the rest of the world. Thus, they imported Western artists to teach their students things such as line, form and colour (things which were never concentrated on in ukiyo-e as the idea behind the picture was normally considered more important). Manga at this period was known as Ponchi-e (Punch-picture) and, like it's British counterpart Punch magazine, mainly depicted humour and political satire in short 1 or 4 picture format.

    Quote: My take on "manga" is that it's an unoriginal "format" artform.

    I find this and oversimplified remark saying more about commercialism in manga than of its artistic value. You can read its a symbiose between a 12th century artform (see above and below) and western techniques. If that's not inovating enough than i don't know what is. Off course some visionairies have come up with a totally differnt style (supposedly) but EVERYTHING has its origins/inspirations from somewhere. I agree manga isn't really original anymore, like it was (tome) say ten years ago. None the less this can be said of a lot of graphical art (or literary for that matter). In the end art is what the creator puts in it nothing more.

    Ukiyo, meaning "floating world", refers to the impetuous young culture that bloomed in the urban centers of Edo (modern-day Tokyo), Osaka, and Kyoto that were a world unto themselves. It is an ironic allusion to the homophone term "Sorrowful World" (憂き世), the earthly plane of death and rebirth from which Buddhists sought release. The art form rose to great popularity in the metropolitan culture of Edo (Tokyo) during the second half of the 17th century, originating with the single-color works of Hishikawa Moronobu in the 1670s. At first, only India ink was used, then some prints were manually colored with a brush, but in the 18th century Suzuki Harunobu developed the technique of polychrome printing to produce nishiki-e.

    grtz kod

  11. #161
    Member Member King of the dutch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Hey seydlitz

    [And had they attempted to bring it to 'our' standards of historical knowledge, they would have lost many customers since the customers just wouldn't understand what CA was giving them. Mainly because they don't really care.

    You're right and that's marketing . Something Ca has to take into account

    And I meant no insult to History teachers either. They are usually the more open-minded teachers, and my High School history teacher is still my favorite teacher ever.

    None taken In fact a lot of information in R:TW was new to me. I haven't been really been busy with history for the last three years or so. Although i always liked it and thought i knew a lot. Plus my knowledge has to be very broad 'coz i teach all subjects. My braincells aren't always cooperating

    Cheers,
    - Seyd

    (And I'm sure there is cool manga. It's just that it gets boring when that's all people read, draw or talk about. They have no interest in anything that dosn't come from Japan, which I find a bit ridiculous.)

    That's true. I just can't get enough of it. And Japan seems really weird to me. A fact that is protrayed (in the somewhat cooler manga) quite obviously. It says a lot about their society and how they live in it and deal with certain taboo's and stuff. ALways interesting for the 'historian' as wel'

    grtz kod

  12. #162
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    While Manga is, I'm sure, a valid art form the reason I think it rubs so many Westerners up the wrong way is that it is iconic and repetative. Its formulaic, all the girls look the same, all the guys look pretty similar. In western comic art we try for atmosphere with stuff like dark back dropsand big set pieces and we like our characters to be realistic and gritty. Not idialistic and clean.

    When you translate Manga into Animae it quite often has shoddy backgrounds and shoddier animation, not to mention the trahsy quality a lot of the girls can have.

    On this last point you get the same thing with a Tomb Raider comic, about halfway through there are usually six plates of her and Witchblade in bed together with just a sheet for covering. Even that is a bit more subtle than some Manga though.

    Thats not saying that some Manga and Animae isn't high art, what was that thing with the bikers in the 80s?

    Personnally though I hate most of it.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  13. #163
    Member Member King of the dutch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    SOrry but the trashy part probably even comes from the western influence.

    I think it rubs so many Westerners up the wrong way is that it is iconic and repetative. Its formulaic, all the girls look the same, all the guys look pretty similar.

    Dark horse comics: all the same: All the spawn spinoffs. All the wizard with the girl and the stronguy comics. Marvel and all its spinoffs. RPG D&D and the like comics/cartoons. Sorry but the generilization is to easy. The act its there is signal which i don't deny. But to pretend western comics/cartoons films or anything are not polluted by commecialism is a bit ridicoulus.

    Good night kod

  14. #164
    Father of the EB Isle Member Aymar de Bois Mauri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by the_handsome_viking
    Essentially manga is just a cartoon language that has grown to huge levels of popularity, I'd imagine because it deals with more mature subjects (as in its not uncommon to see breasts, violence and gore).

    By cartoon language I mean a drawing system that shows a clear distinctive style, for example Genndy Tartakovsky has a pretty distinct style in his Star Wars: Clone Wars cartoons, or Samurai Jack cartoons or the comic artist Cam Kennedy, who has his own distinct style, as seen is dark empire or judge dredd.

    Whats funny is the way that Western comics and cartoons seem to be more diverse in terms of their cartoon languages, whereas almost all Japanese comic books and cartoons I've seen appear to be drawn in the exact same cartoon langauge.

    Oh well, It will die a death sooner or later.

    http://www.seizurerobots.com/
    I disagree with the preconcieved notion that "manga" is all the same. IIRC, "manga" means comic in japanese. And judging from the miriad of varied titles produced every month in Japan it is very restrictive to think that way. What I know for sure is that the "manga" titles sold abroad are mostly from the same type and drawn similary, therefore our preconcieved notion of what "manga" looks or reads like.

    And this is why? Because in the western countries (specially in the states), comics, as well as animations, are and have always been targeted to kids or juveniles. This puzzles me when watching the work of European authors like Möebius, Jean Giraud, Schuiten and Peters, Enki Bilal, Tardi, etc... that have nothing to envy to good literature books. It is preciselly this kid-type targeting that makes the japanese "manga" exported abroad to be chosen specifically for that target audience. And therefore the current notions of what "manga" is portraied in this thread.

    For something different regarding japanese comics book that is significant in showing the wide ranges and different art styles in "manga", as well as to adding a touch of historical setting that many people here should enjoy, read Lone Wolf and Cub (known in Japan as Kozure Ōkami 子連れ狼) the masterpiece created by the writer Kazuo Koike and the artist Goseki Kojima.

    EDIT: I hadn't read your post, King of the dutch. I should have said "something like comic" instead. But the idea remains...
    Last edited by Aymar de Bois Mauri; 01-26-2006 at 03:13.

  15. #165

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wigferth Ironwall
    Variation in animation is fine but it will increase the greatest problem with Total War, what I like to call:

    "Go on my son!" Syndrome. Thats when you sit peering intently at your screen watching one hard-arsed bastard with a war axe outnumbered ten to one and when he finally dies you look up to realise the rest of your army are dog food.

    There was nothing wrong with RTW, the historical accuracy wasn't all that bad in a general sense, as said above, Gladiator has defined the Romans for this generation. So we have to live with it.

    MTW2 will rock, even if you have to fight Dragons.
    Dragons are badass!!!

  16. #166
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Yeah, imagine using them for castle assaults.

    "Look out for the Enflish flyers!"
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  17. #167

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
    I disagree with the preconcieved notion that "manga" is all the same. IIRC, "manga" means comic in japanese.
    And?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
    And judging from the miriad of varied titles produced every month in Japan it is very restrictive to think that way.
    Not really, When someone says "mangas" they are typically referring to this type of drawing.



    Typically the style features tiny noses and mouths a tendancy towards abstracted caucasoid features, very large eyes and long limbs.

    If you type the words "manga" and "anime" into an image search, you will get a series of pictures automatically that will show a clear and distinct style(cartoon language).

    Don't just take my word for it, try it out for yourself.

    http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...&cop=&ei=UTF-8
    http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=...=Search+Images
    http://images.google.co.uk/images?sv...ga&btnG=Search
    http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...g-t&fl=0&x=wrt

    Weither or not it is correct or efficient to call this connect this style to the Japanese word for comic/cartoons, is another subject all together, but to be fair, when someone says "mangas" or "anmies" you typically think of the style seen in the links above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
    What I know for sure is that the "manga" titles sold abroad are mostly from the same type and drawn similary, therefore our preconcieved notion of what "manga" looks or reads like.
    Theres nothing wrong with that, human beings by nature will form rules based on the perceived patterns and trends they see within their enviroment, this results in a bunch of Westerners thinking that manga and anime refer to the distinct style seen in the links I posted above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
    And this is why? Because in the western countries (specially in the states), comics, as well as animations, are and have always been targeted to kids or juveniles.
    I'm not sure if I agree with that within relation to manga and anime.
    There seems to be a stronger presence of adult themed Japanese comic books and animations and I really do believe that this is one of the major selling points of manga/anime in the West.

    In a comic book store I will find more mature themed manga/anime's than children themed manga/anime's.

    The dictionary sheds an interesting bit of light on this subject that kind of backs up my point.

    1 entry found for animes.
    an·i·me Audio pronunciation of "animes" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-m)
    n.

    A style of animation developed in Japan, characterized by stylized colorful art, futuristic settings, violence, and sex.
    Not so kiddy eh?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
    This puzzles me when watching the work of European authors like Möebius, Jean Giraud, Schuiten and Peters, Enki Bilal, Tardi, etc... that have nothing to envy to good literature books. It is preciselly this kid-type targeting that makes the japanese "manga" exported abroad to be chosen specifically for that target audience. And therefore the current notions of what "manga" is portraied in this thread.
    Other than the bit about the manga and animes being typically targeted at children, I couldn't agree more.

    Cartoons and comic books have a lot more potential as a story telling platform than most people give them credit for, and personally I would like more mature Western comic books and animations.

    My major gripe with these mangas and animes is that the style is unoriginal and gets boring after a while.

    Whereas Frank Frazetta really can't be confused with Edgar Pierre Jacobs.

  18. #168
    That's what SHE said... Member Seydlitz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    handsome_viking is spot on everything he said.

    I was mainly saying manga's are "unoriginal' from an art perspective. I'm on an arts oriented course, and no matter how good it looks, manga is very simplistic.

    The first thing we were told on the first day is "We do not accept the manga/anime style." Manga is good to help you in the beginning, but it is pretty disproportionate and very lacking in detail. And it all looks the same, since it is "mass produced" art. It was meant to be simple, so lots of people could make something that looks good with little artistic background, and at great speed. Manga is not a good representation of artistic skill, but the ability to copy a style.

    And who said all Darkhorse Comics are bad? Their Star Wars comics are actually quite good! At least some of them . If you are a Star Wars fan, the Star Wars: Empire series and the Star Wars: Republic are must reads. Especially the Star Wars: Empire V.2, Darklighter, and Star Wars: Empire V.3, The Imperial Perspective. The stories about Biggs Darklighter and Janek Sunberr's adventures are really well told. They are easily the equal of most science fiction books.

  19. #169
    VOXIFEX MAXIMVS Member Shigawire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Exactly Seydlitz.


    "To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will its true nature be seen." -The Amtal Rule, DUNE

  20. #170
    I too am a Member Masy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    10000 troops eep
    "Once upon a time, on the internet there was a guy, a very deeply flawed man, they called him Eric Bauman..." -www.ebaumsworldsucks.com

  21. #171
    VOXIFEX MAXIMVS Member Shigawire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    That's what they said with RTW as well, but as we all know it was an exaggerated number. Even if graphic cards have improved since then, and the basic engine hasn't changed, my bet is that M2TW will still require more processing power, since the models are higher detailed now (with fingers, multiple modules, textures etc)


    "To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will its true nature be seen." -The Amtal Rule, DUNE

  22. #172
    I too am a Member Masy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    ye gods, fingers really?!?!? discovering americas looks ambitious too
    "Once upon a time, on the internet there was a guy, a very deeply flawed man, they called him Eric Bauman..." -www.ebaumsworldsucks.com

  23. #173
    Member Member RandyKapp's Avatar
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    Default AW: Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Ive had 10,000 man games in rome....

  24. #174
    That's what SHE said... Member Seydlitz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Some guy over at TWC.net posted this! It's from the new PC Gameplay issue. All I can say is this makes me even more anxious for M2:tw c

    [EDIT:]Oh yeah, and new screens at the .com!! And there is a Landsknecht! Can anyone say Wohooo


    The article :

    Quote:
    We have built Rome, overwhelmed the Gauls (even if some crazies raved about having “magic potions) and then razed everything that was standing to the ground as a barbarian. It is time to start a new historical chapter, the sequel to Classic Age : The Medieval times. Rub yourself in with some anti-plague lotion, because we are going to build keeps, convert disbelievers (read: cut of their heads) and wage war. Total War!

    The Middle Ages? Total War? Haven’t we played this before? Indeed, about 3 years ago, the Creative Assembly catapulted Medieval : Total War onto the market, but they have learned a lot since the release of Rome: Total War. They now want to use this experience to create a sequel that will pale its predecessor. Before we delve deeper into MTW2, we first have to mention that the team of developers isn’t the same as the one for Rome. Medieval 2 is being developed by the Australian branch of Creative Assembly and not by the English team.

    Medieval 2 will contain have one campaign that stretches from 1080 till 1530. It starts with the time of the knights and the crusades, going to the Mongol invasion and the gunpowder age and ends with the Renaissance and the discovery of America. In order to introduce the new player to the game mechanics, there will be a prologue campaign. There will be 21 playable and non-playable factions. You will recognise old friends, but you will also see new factions like Venice, Portugal and Scotland. Since every faction has his unique properties, different factions will offer different challenges in the campaign.
    For example, Scotland has a strong neighbour, the English. They will need to bide their time quietly before they expand their lands. Their troops consist of spearmen from the Lowlands and fickle savages from the Highlands. Once the Scots have bred sufficient warriors, they can trample over the English (not a nice view, with the skirts and all). The British Island will then be the perfect harbour from which to conquer the mainland. The English on the other hand have a weak economy at first, but they have excellent prospects. Their army is reliable and this is necessary, for they have to be on their guard for an alliance between the French and the Scots. The French have an excellent economy thanks to their rich farmlands, but they have to compensate for their weak foot soldiers by recruiting knights. Venice has an excellent starting position for they only have a “symbolic” starting army. Their economy is strong though and they can bribe, assassinate and attract mercenaries in order to expand.

    Because of the introduction of the new factions, there are more units to choose from (over 250!). Especially cool are the Gothic Knights whose horses, as well as themselves, are completely covered in steel armour. Since most projectiles don’t hurt them, these fighters are very difficult to take down. The Turkish have a mortar that is modelled after that one that was used during the siege of Constantinople. The barrel is more than a meter long en the projectile that fits in it (stone, bullet, clowns) can weigh a couple of hundred kilos. In the ranks of the English, one can find the famous Longbow men, blokes who have bows with a length of over 2 meters. In order to protect them against cavalry, you can put spikes in the ground, which impale the knights who have bad horse-brakes. The Spaniards and Italians love gunpowder and the bullets that their musketeers fire, can pierce even the strongest armour with ease. It goes without saying that these new units will bring new tactics to the field.

    In order to represent the chaos of battle, Medieval 2 uses the praised Rome engine, though there have been lots of changes underneath the hood. A predictable change is the higher number of polygons and the more detailed textures, which even allow you to read the names of the programmers on the tombstones. A new feature is that armies no longer consist of clones. There is a more varied collection of heads, bodies and limbs available to the soldiers. There are also more types of shields, weapons, armour and even horses. The engine can thus render armies that are more “individual”.
    A second change is that settlements are represented differently. The developers want to do the huge cities and keeps justice and they strive for as much realism as possible. In Medieval 2, the castles and cities aren’t placed at “pre-fab” positions, but are nicely integrated into the landscape, even if that landscape is dominated by steep hills or cliffs. This not only creates more realism, but also brings more strategy with it. If you want to take the settlements, you now have to pass defensive barriers created by both man and nature. Most of the time, you will need the artillery to smash through the outer wall, while you use the siege towers to scale the inner wall. If your men managed to prise open the citygate, then you can let your units storm the keep with storm ladders. Of course, a couple of well-aimed cannonballs should do the trick as well. The localized damage (what you hit is what you destroy) also adds to the realism.

    If you zoom in during the fighting, you will notice that the animations have progressed greatly. The makers have recorded thousands of motion-capture sessions in order to create synchronised fights. Soldiers will block attacks, parry and combine movements in order to cleave their way through their opponents in a graceful way. Units with a hole in their stomach will go down with a “bang” and others will go looking for new meat to chop up. The fights no longer consist of set animations that are repeated until the opponent hits the dirt. The soldiers in the rearguard, who have no sparring partner, are forced to either to sling insults at the enemy, or quiver next to the mounts of friendly dead. This creates a realistic battleground, which increases the immersion dramatically.

    It is also nice to know that Medieval 2 will also feature the night battles from Barbarian Invasion. Imagine smoking cannons and wrecked castles on fire and you have a spectacle which you could only imagine in your dreams (or recreate by using Lego, we still have the melted goo on the attic). The night battles also provide new tactical options. The capability to fight at night is a trait of the general, just like in BI. A commander who doesn’t have this trait, will have it hard at night to earn a victory. Artillery also performs worse when the sun has gone down over the hills.

    As every TW game, Medieval 2 also has a turn-based side to the game. It has the same 3D map as in Rome, on which you can block mountain passes and blockade areas of strategic importance with your forces. A difference with Rome is that you can choose whether you can develop your settlement in a castle OR a city. A castle improves your military and a city boosts your economy. A stronger economy allows you to bribe your enemies. If money doesn’t work, you will need to attract mercenaries in order to defend your lands. A castle requires much less management than a city, but cities grow more important as the game progresses.

    On the campaign map you can see “agents” running around, including assassins, priests and princesses. Most of them are under your control and you can use them in non-military interactions with other factions. A princess can be used to negotiate or to marry (once), so that you can cement an alliance with another faction. Merchants can be used to open new trade routes or you can order them to “attack” an enemy faction, thus disrupting its economy. A priest spreads the faith, but can become a heretic. In that case, the AI takes over control of your servant and uses him to undermine religion in your territory. You better not let him continue unabated, because there is, like in Rome, an external force : the Pope. He will not come enter your doorstep personally to smash a bible on your head, but he can excommunicate you and you will gain a lot of enemies. If the Pope likes you, he will warn your enemies to cease hostilities with your faction.

    Also, the campaign map is much larger than in Rome since you can also discover America. In the beginning, this isn’t possible, but once you have the technology to cross the ocean, nothing will stop you. In America, you will find unique and lucrative resources like tobacco, chocolate and, of course, gold. It goes without saying that they will do wonders for your treasury and if you convert some heathens, you will become a good friend of the Pontiff. Of course, conquering America isn’t going to be a breeze: the Aztecs aren’t too happy about your presence and it will take more than a sneeze to conquer them beneath your boot. Their lack of military technology will be compensated by their numbers and fanatic zeal. A harbour in the New Land however can bring you closer to your end goal: Total Domination!


    The Interview:

    Quote:
    Because one can never know enough regarding a new Total War title, our armoured knight mounted his horse and galloped to Australia. Once he arrived, he put a knife (more like a almost completely rusted and eaten-away sword) to the throats of project leader Bob Smith and associate producer Prasant Moorthy.

    PCGP: Can you tell us a bit more about the team?
    Prasant Moorthy: Medieval 2 is being developed by a section of CA in Brisbane, Australia. At the moment, the studio has 37 members and the most of them have worked on previous titles of the Total War franchise (including Spartan Total Warrior). Medieval 2 will be our first solo project.

    PCGP: What is the role of religion? Will it affect the gameplay like it did in Civilization 4?
    Bob Smith: Religion was very important in the medieval period. If we ignored it, we would break the realism of the game. Religion will be more important in Medieval 2 than in any other TW title. An important aspect is that player needs to be on the good side of the Pope. The Pope will formulate, just as the senate in RTW, requests. These are, for example, to organise a crusade against the Muslims, Orthodox factions or pagans. The faction who manages to succeeds in his mission first, will gain lots of prestige and wealth. If you grant this request, and others, the Pope will think of you as his friend. Another way of keeping him friendly is to build cathedrals and convert your population to the Catholic belief. The Pope will then warn your enemies to cease hostilities against you and he will accept suggestions of your faction to declare a suggestion against a faction of your choice.
    If you disregard the requests of the Pope, he will become irritated and sent inquisitors to your lands to kill the infidels. He can also excommunicate you, which makes you lose lots of prestige with the religious populace. If the Pope dies, for any reason whatsoever, a college of cardinals will elect a new Pope. If one of your priests is a cardinal, he can participate in the discussion regarding who is to become the new Pope. And if he is very successful, he might become Pope himself, thus ending any difficult relationships you might have with the Pope.

    PCGP: Will settlements work in the same way as in Rome?
    PM: There are six levels of development, from humble villages tot vast cities and from wooden forts to stone castles. Settlements can now be either a city or a castle, and each has their own unique tech-tree. Castles are ruled from a feudal system, have an excellent difference, and allow you early in the game to recruit strong units. However, because of limitations in space and management, they will never contribute the same amount to your economy as your cities do. Cities are excellent for trade and technology and as the game progresses, they will grant you the best units. On the lowest level of development, you can change your cities in a castle and vice versa. However, buildings that aren’t compatible with the new type of settlement will be lost.

    PCGP: Can you give some examples of buildings that can be build in your cities?
    PM: There are a lot of new buildings who will grant access to new units and possibilities by upgrades. Churches and Mosques will spread the faith in your settlements and will give access to priests. Cannon foundries will give you gunpowder-based artillery and a smith will improve your units with better armour and weapons.

    PCGP: Which other “RPG-parameters” can we expect from the Generals?
    PM: There is a whole new set of medieval traits and also a couple of new primary attributes. A big addition is the concept of Chivalry and Dread. The actions of the general will make hem progress in one of the two attributes, which will give a more distinct personality to your general. Chivalrous types will have the loyalty of their troops, while Dread lords will strike fear into the enemy.

    PCGP: CA was bought some time ago by Sega. Does this mean you will spend more time on console titles in the future?
    BS: We haven’t changed our focus after the Sega deal. Although we have launched the Spartan Total Warrior franchise, this has not interrupted our work on the Total War franchise and it has most certainly not had any influence whatsoever on our ambition for the franchise. Work on Spartan was well underway before we signed the deal with Sega. This deal allows us to fulfil our ambitions on both the console as the pc market.

    PCGP: When can we start conquering?
    BS: For now we cannot give a fixed date. Let us say that with some luck it might be possible to play this game this year. Maybe!
    Last edited by Seydlitz; 01-27-2006 at 00:40.

  25. #175

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shigawire
    That's what they said with RTW as well, but as we all know it was an exaggerated number. Even if graphic cards have improved since then, and the basic engine hasn't changed, my bet is that M2TW will still require more processing power, since the models are higher detailed now (with fingers, multiple modules, textures etc)
    I've had 18k men onscreen at once. What GFX card are you using exactly? Something from 1992?

  26. #176
    Member Member King of the dutch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    18k? With what army? max. 20 units onscreen. Unit has max. 240 men

    20 X 240= 4800. Two armies of hoplites only. (very unlikely) makes for a maximum of 9600 soldiers. You claim double? impossible

  27. #177
    Member Member Warlord 11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by King of the dutch
    18k? With what army? max. 20 units onscreen. Unit has max. 240 men

    20 X 240= 4800. Two armies of hoplites only. (very unlikely) makes for a maximum of 9600 soldiers. You claim double? impossible
    You can have more than two armies. Though it is very rare outside of custom battles.

  28. #178
    VOXIFEX MAXIMVS Member Shigawire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandarah
    I've had 18k men onscreen at once. What GFX card are you using exactly? Something from 1992?
    XFX 7800 GTX UDD7

    But I'm not talking about my own computer. I'm talking about how the number is unrealistic for everyone else who aren't as lucky. When I had my previous card, 9800XT, even 7000-9000 soldiers went unsmoothly..


    "To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will its true nature be seen." -The Amtal Rule, DUNE

  29. #179

    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    Oh man this is going to be awesome, conquering the world with Scotland!

    http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/french.php
    Last edited by the_handsome_viking; 01-27-2006 at 13:08.

  30. #180
    That's what SHE said... Member Seydlitz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Medieval2 ~:cheers:

    On a custom battle I've gotten 32,000 men. Was really choppy, but it was playable enough for me to perform a flanking manouver

    And I only have a XFX GF6600 GT.

    See for yourself:


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