So who’s playing what?

[Tomisama]

Is anyone still fighting with STW v1.12, or is everyone on MI/WE v1.02?

Does everyone have Map Pack 116?

Any folks looking for team games (3v3s or 4v4s), are there enough players to have these?

Is the 4 max of same unit and no rain, still pretty much standard play?

And I’ve forgotten honour level relationships if anyone can give me a clue, it might jar my little brain back into action

Quite a list huh!

Thanks in advance

[Kansuke]

Hi Tomi,

I loaded my game on today and gave it a go, must admit it was nice.

I think most play 1.02, 4 max etc, in order to play 2v2 and 3v3 I think we will need to organize a time, maybe SOS might be a good idea.

You can count me in anyway.

Bows.

Kansuke

[arcade81]

I've been playing pretty regulary since the new year. I am still relatively at a beginners standard. I have all the map packs and am eager to learn..

[Just A Girl]

Seems we play v1.02 WE. I think most have the map pack's

We usualy play 4 max unit. rule.
But ive never seen a battle where we had dissalowed a weather type.

We can ocasionaly play 3v3 but i have only seen 1 or 2. 4 v's 4 since my server was opend.

as for honour level relation ship...
Im not sure what you mean. But if this helps.

I think you get 2 extera combat points per honour point added on.
So honour is importaint.

Tecnhically.....
a honour 5 nd beats a honour 5 yari sam.
a honour 6 Ys beats a honour 5 Nd.

I hope that explains it

[Drisos]

Good to see some vets intrested!

For some teamgames try GMT evenings in the weekend. (also friday) A while ago we used to play every weekend...

sigh... I only hope I can fix the trouble with my comp so I play some games again...

Tomi here's one quick standard 1.02 army for you:

4 muskets h1
4 yari samurai h6
4 no-dachi h5
4 naginata cavalry h3 (general included)

I doubt I ever seen exactly this army, but it sure looks like all armies used these days. Naginata are too weak in 1.02, muskets very powerful so always used. Naginata cav are most popular.

[Just A Girl]

HA!
you wanna be using.
4 muskets h0
4 yari sams h6 w1 a0
2 nd h5 w1 a 0
1nd h5 w0 a 0
3 nag cavs h3 (1 of which is genereal)
2Yari cav h3

Thats prety close to 10k.
and i personaly like that army lots.
i dont use it to well. Lol.
But its the thought that counts :)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You guys are really stingy on the ranged units...you'll get shot down big time against someone with 6 or 7 ranged. With 4 musks hon0 you may as well rush.

[Trajanus]

I usually sneak 1 or 2 Nags in just to confuse and surprise my opponent. Has worked well so far.

[Drisos]

Well Sasaki I used to take 6 ranged most of the time... sometimes even 8. (and I remember once I had 12.. was on a bridge defense )

but at the moment I have 0 ranged, 0 inf and 0 cav...

[Just A Girl]

You guys are really stingy on the ranged units...you'll get shot down big time against someone with 6 or 7 ranged. With 4 musks hon0 you may as well rush.

I sometimes replace the 2 Yari cav with 2 cav archers.
H0 W0 A0
then i have even more money to upgrade my infantry than when i only have 4 ranged units.

but i think heavy ranged or heavy cav armys are a bit unballanced.
so i tend to try and have a infantry based army. Like i imagine it would have been.

[AggonyDuck]

Bah! 8 Cav is the way to go!

[Just A Girl]

8 cav only works as you can only have 4 anti cav units. "using the 4 max unit rule"
Hopefully given time it will be customary to alow the use of 8 yari sams to make up for the loss of the yari ashigaru,

Heavy cav armys could then bre bought back in to balance

[Kansuke]

Yes Duck would use 4 max, possibly 4 nag cav and 4 cav archer.

Kans.

[AggonyDuck]

Actually more propable would be 4 Nag Cav (h4), 1 Yari Cav (h5) and 3 (h0) Cav Arch. :)

Anyways Shambles, cav heavy armies are in no way out of balance. Simply those 4 Yari Sams are able to easily defeat atleast double their number of cavalry. Which leaves me to hope I can rout them with a musket fire + cav charge in the rear. Anyways usually the best hope with an army like that is to beat the cav decisively, while trying to avoid contact with enemy YS, until I've got almost total cavalry superiority.

[Just A Girl]

exactly...
So if the opponent had 8 pole arm units.
4 muskets hon 0
2 nag cav. 2 yari cav
your cavalry would be in trouble if they were the ones who were on the attack.

but as it is,
we have 4 anti cav units,
and a bunch of other Some what mediocre sword units.
Which does not hold well vs heavy cav army.

4 pole arm units can only restrain 4 cav units.
Where as the other 4 cav units can circle. and attack from the rear. Thus decimating the 4 anti cav units and still having 4 cav units left.

[AggonyDuck]

To be honest with 4 h0 musks and 8 YS, you would neither have the firepower or mobility to handle a cav based army. Also you forget that it's not a case of 4 YS vs 8 Cav, but a case of 4 YS+4 Cav situation. This scenario should be an easy win for the 4 YS+4 Cav fella, unless he doesn't know what he's doing.

[Just A Girl]

I beleve we should try this out.
I know your better than me at shogun.

but i beleve i would be able to inflict more losses on a strong cav army.
with 8 yari sams, 4 muskets and 4 cav,
than i could with, my usual army of 4 yari sams 4 muskests 5cav and 3 no dachi

4 yari sams could constantly defend my muskets preventing them from being charged, Thus they would not rout.
Whilst the other 4 yari sams could be used to attack your cav.
The muskets could shoot your infantry and your cav Provided that the weather is nice.
And i would still have plenty of infantry units left for mele if in deed it was ever needed.

My cav could be used for any number of things, and probably would be.
And i dont see how a strong cav army would win.
2 yari cav and 2 nag cav. would be able to corner any CA. which the yaris could not attack.

and unless you brought 4 CA. it would be difficult for them to escape unless you sacrifice your muskets defences to defend the Ca.

Given that i had earlier stated that this would be a situation where the heavy cav army was the attacker.
I personaly think the heavy cav army would loose,
And this would be even more true If both opponents were of similar skill level.

I beleve 4 cav would have the mobilaty to distrupt your plans. and chase down any routers.
I also beleve that the cav would not be able to do much other than get shot or poked with long sticks.

and i dont see the opponents CA and muskets geting within range of the defending muskets, without needing to Sacrifice some of the muskets defences thus allowing a cav charge of my own to crush the opponets muskets.

We should try it some time :)
See how it pans out.

[Just A Girl]

P.S

have a look in the watch tower, for a thread called how do change my name?

It seems many have changed there names recently using that thread,

Prehaps it is time you became Agony instead of pain here as well

[AggonyDuck]

This is my usual army setup;

4 h4 Nag Cav
1 h5 Yari Cav
2 h1 Cav Arch
1 h0 Cav Arch
4 h5 No-Dachi
4 h2 Muskets

As you can see my fire power is about double of yours and those h0 Musks won't stay for long once they tire and are fired at. Of course I've not played in a while, but I remember that h0 Musks have a bad habit of not sticking around. Provided that the map would be relatively flat, I should be able to defeat you in the shootout, which should leave me with 4 depleted Musks and 3 full cav archers. These could be used to deplete some of your Yari Sams and any attempt to chase me would result in your loss of cavalry, unless I'm stupid enough to engage your cav close to your YS. Your best hope would be an all out charge at me, which you might propably win.

I believe you might be using h3 Nag Cav/Yari Cav which would be quite worthless against my cav without YS support, which severely limits their mobility at the early stages of the battle. Anyways trying it out would be good, although I believe that I'm severely disadvantaged in either scenario.

[Just A Girl]

This is my usu...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

al army setup;

4 h4 Nag Cav
1 h5 Yari Cav
2 h1 Cav Arch
1 h0 Cav Arch
4 h5 No-Dachi
4 h2 Muskets

As you can see my fire power is about double of yours and those h0 Musks won't stay for long once they tire and are fired at. Of course I've not played in a while, but I remember that h0 Musks have a bad habit of not sticking around. Provided that the map would be relatively flat, I should be able to defeat you in the shootout, which should leave me with 4 depleted Musks and 3 full cav archers. These could be used to deplete some of your Yari Sams and any attempt to chase me would result in your loss of cavalry, unless I'm stupid enough to engage your cav close to your YS. Your best hope would be an all out charge at me, which you might propably win.

I believe you might be using h3 Nag Cav/Yari Cav which would be quite worthless against my cav without YS support, which severely limits their mobility at the early stages of the battle. Anyways trying it out would be good, although I believe that I'm severely disadvantaged in either scenario.

I tend to use my cav to make your muskets rout....
flanking side attacks often lead opponent's muskets routing.
I tned not to use my cave vs cav..
unless its YS vs CA,
and then i will try my best get round the back of the CA with 1 unint.
then attack with the other.
Scirmishing CA, then just get sandwiched and die Very fast.

You can also do it with NAG cav And Yari cav vs CA,
but the nag cav haft to be the ones attacking from the rear.
or the idiots dont get there in time and the ca can escape,

apart from CA,
cav units dont really frighten me that much.
My yari sams are usualy H6. and dont fear horses.


Your point on hon 0 muskets routing is true,

But in my last 2 battles. I had 3 units of h o muskets left at the end of the battle Even though they had come within Inches of a opponents cav more than 1ce.

"i lernt that they dont run way if your yari sams save them in time, but if they start to run away it takes ages to get them to come back"
So hon 0 muskets do work, Provided you defend them well.
Im getting gradualy better at that.

And seeing as you have 0 yari sams in that army...
I dont see your muskets being around very long.
as even high honour muskets runaway when they have horse hoof's bouncing off there scull.

I think it would be an interesting battle.
And prehaps we can do it some time when you have some free time.

Unfortunatly It cant be now.
But prehaps tomorrow or the week end, we can test it out and see what happens.

"i think i will lose, But not as badly as i would other wize"

[AggonyDuck]

There's one thing wrong with they way you're imagining things....you wouldn't be able to actually make contact with my Musks. My cav could intercept you quite close to my Musks and trust me, your cav wouldn't stick around for long. Also I don't see how I would possibly need YS to protect my musks?

As far as I know actually having YS close enough to protect your Musks will just result in unnecessary casualties, when a couple of cav units can protect them, without risking casualties due to stray bullets.

But anyways we can test it out this Sunday or next week if it suits you better.

[Just A Girl]

Then we shal see how badly I loose :)
If i dont loose all that badly il beleve im right :D

[Drisos]

A bit of discussion is nice but keep it friendly...

Just go and test it in a few battles, and one of you will get the chance to proove his theory was right. oki?

[AggonyDuck]

Drisos, my real problem was with this statement:

8 cav only works as you can only have 4 anti cav units. "using the 4 max unit rule"
Hopefully given time it will be customary to alow the use of 8 yari sams to make up for the loss of the yari ashigaru,

Heavy cav armys could then bre bought back in to balance

In this statement, Shambles is saying that cav heavy armies are overpowered due to the 4 max rule. As a player who has always relied on my cavalry to deliver my victories, I must admit that I find it almost insulting.
But enough of that.

My point is not that I would be able to defeat him with cav when he has 8 YS, but that an army with 4 YS is actually well able to defeat a cav heavy army and that he is actually losing flexibility with 8 YS.

[Kansuke]

Hi Guys,

I tend to agree with Ducky on this debate, based on my own actual MP battle experience.

No need for a test, in reality it might be different, but in MP no chance, sorry Shambles.


Kans.

[Drisos]

In this statement, Shambles is saying that cav heavy armies are overpowered due to the 4 max rule. As a player who has always relied on my cavalry to deliver my victories, I must admit that I find it almost insulting.
But enough of that.

I know - it sounds a bit like you're exploited a little mistake in the rules.

Personally I think if I'd be the same skill as my opponent and he had 8 cavs I should be able to win. using 4 YS, 4 musk, 4 yc, and probably something like 2 nd and 2 nc.

[Kansuke]

Err, think your missing something here, 8 cav it might be, but 3 are CA, the point is the missiles will decimate a slow army quite quickly. If it were 8 combat cav, 4 inf and 4 musks, the 8 YS army would win.


Guys, I had 12 YS and 4 musks rushes hurled at me, CA work very well against it.

[Just A Girl]

"No need for a test, in reality it might be different, but in MP no chance, sorry Shambles."

Well i still belive They should be available to people who Want to have 8 pole arm infantry.
if the opponent is allowed 8 cav.
if the yari ashi's were allowed You could have 8 pole arm infantry, without breaking the max 4 rule.
But ashis have been dissalowed.
so to compensate I sudgest that we allow people to use 8 YS if they so desier.

If it will reduce there mobilaty and mean they cant win Then they will not use them,
However I dont see how its fair to remove the possibilaty of having 8 pole arms infantry.
yet allow a heavy cav army.
4 nag cav, 4 Hc. 4 Yc, 4 muskets. Its a posible army that people could use.

and prior to disalowing Yari ashigarus.
you could have had 4 yari ashi 4 yari sams. 2 nag cav 2 yari cav and 4 Muskets.
to counter such an army. when defending.

I mearly propose that we allow 8 yari sams to be used.
becous ashi garu's are dissalowed.

This IMO would bring the game back in to ballance.

And Duck...
I did not mean to offend you.

[AggonyDuck]

4 nag cav, 4 Hc. 4 Yc, 4 muskets. Its a posible army that people could use.

I salute the guy who can use such an army to defeat a normal army with YS.
The fact is that if he was to field an army like that, it would end up with mostly h3 cav, which IMO doesn't tend to stick around when losing badly.

On the other hand a 4 NC, 4 HC, 4 CA army might work a bit better, but cav always needs infantry to support it IMO.

Anyways I guess this argument got a bit out of hand, so I apologize for starting it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Shambles, 4 ys and 4 cav will beat 8 cav quite easily. I don't see the problem here.