Doubts about EB.

[jebes]

In the next build the gesatae will have 60 men per unit rather than 80 as to be more in line with most elites.

Hmm, will the recruitment costs and upkeep be reduced as well? I am one of the few people that think they are perfectly balanced and people who cry about fighting them, should go recruit some.

[LordElrond]

Upkeep is determined per man. So the upkeep will be lower than the 80-man unit size now that it is 60 men.

[Kralizec]

Hmm, will the recruitment costs and upkeep be reduced as well? I am one of the few people that think they are perfectly balanced and people who cry about fighting them, should go recruit some.

I disagree. I just had my first battle fighting them. After first chewing through a unit of peltasts, I send a second one (with 4 chevrons) to pin it so I had time to bring my 3 units of thessalian hippeis (!) to the scene. I repeatedly charged those damn nudists with all three, and each time they would kill only 2-3 men or so. the peltasts routed. So did 2 of my thessalian hippeis. Eventually I pinned the gestaete (29 men at this point, and still at impetuous morale!), let it tire out a bit and charged into their bare asses with my remaining thessalian hippeis. Finally they routed.
Net result: I lost over 80 Thessalian horses and 120 peltasts on these guys. I'm playing on hard difficulty and the gestaete were at valour 2, but still that's ridiculous (none of my units were greens either)

[QwertyMIDX]

Skirmish with them first, that's they way to wear them down.

Anyway, the costs do go down, the new costs will be 2506, down from 3000 something.

[Kralizec]

It was a siege, the AI sallied. Because they had a 5-3 numerical advantage I thought the best strategy was to deploy my phezetharoi in one long phalanx parked straight before the entrance. It did a fine job keeping a huge blob of those botroas (?) at pike point but the gastaete went around it.

Otherwise I do actively skirmish. I use at least 2 units of slingers, toxotai and akontisoi each in a typical army plus 3 or 4 peltasts. Much more entertaining then just using half a stack of pezhetaroi and rolling over the enemy.

[pezhetairoi]

I never had any problems with gaesatae. Playing as the Arverni I fought a rebel army with 2 gaesatae, 2 mala gaeroas and 1 leuce epos 1 Brihentin. The gaesatae were on the left wing, so I pinned them down with my 2 sotaroas and sent my leuce epos (alright, so I had 4 of them) to their flanks to shower them with javelins, while tempting the gaesatae forward with my mala gaeroas. Meanwhile my 2 Botroas and 2 brihentin were holding off all the other units. The gaesatae attempted to charge my botroas' flank (all I had on my right flank were sotaroas who retreated as they charged, uncovering my centre) but by this time their 2 hit points had been worn down to one and they had lost about a fifth of their number. The 4 leuce epos hit them in the rear having exhausted their ammo about a second before their front ranks contacted the botroas, and the gaesatae routed without so much as even chewing up one single unit. A little anticlimactic, maybe, but I don't think I want to see the gaesatae acting out the horror stories everyone has been telling about them. But, seriously. Ranged attacks will rip them apart and dampen their morale. Anyone who tries to meet their charge with their own shock deserves what they get.

[Ano2]

Gaestae were the bane of my Averni campaign...

[pezhetairoi]

Sad to hear that. Triarii are the bane of mine. The Romani churn them out like there's no tomorrow, and they are SO DAMN HARD to rout. And when you happen to have 6 units of Equites nibbling away at your sides knowing that at best you have Botroas and Bataroas to face them (Too poor to afford gaesatae, you see) it makes for some very close-shaven battles. Add to that the fact that you can't retrain main battle line troops in Italy, and it means my campaign is seriously set back every time I fight a battle.