Why i hate hating religion

[Lentonius]

Religion, nowadays has formed into two 'gangs'

The first are those who believe, and the other big group are those who dont believe, and without being critical usually make fun of the first group...

It happens the other way of cource, with some crazed zealot condeming atheists to hell...


But recently there have been documentaries and all sorts about atheists who hate religion, and although i can see their point think that it is very unfair...


' all wars are caused by religion...'

My answer to that is that in many cases like the middle east, people are using the excuse of faith to justify killing of innocents. People like this are quite bluntly evil, and if there was no religion, would find another excuse, like race, to justify their barbarities...

'without religion the world would be a better place'

Well, that is very debatable. In my opinion, in places like Africa, where there is mass murders of all sorts, religion has sometimes been the only hope for these people. In their poverty, the words of Jesus or any other god bring forth hope that They will live better in another life, and therefore gives hope.

'there is no afterlife you sad fools'

Only one way to find out...never say never

'religion should be banned'

Well, i propose a live and let live policy. I also say this to the 'faithful' who also do not understand a live and let live policy..

I am buddhist,and although i wouldn't call myself a practicing buddhist, beleive it is wrong to criticise one's beleifs

[Adrian II]

Well, I propose a live and let live policy.

That is the sensible approach, provided that children are allowed by their parents to 'live' as well. They must be taught about the various schools of thought and given the opportunity to think and experiment for themselves without being 'drilled' in one belief or another. We have seen the results of fundamentalist religious schools on the one hand and state-controlled atheist education (Soviet Union, China) on the other, and they are not encouraging.

[Lentonius]

well,live and let live is good, and also applies to those with religious beliefs.

However, there are many things nowadays in western culture that openly ridicules religion. Having a lighthearted mickey-take i stand by fully but sometimes these anti-religion fests are not light hearted and therefore are then looked on as more insulting than fun...

[Lazul]

' all wars are caused by religion...'

Its a common reason for war, yes, but if religion isnt there to be used something ells will allways do.

'without religion the world would be a better place'

Anoying statement since religion cannot go away, its a part of the human race and will allways be in one form or another.

'there is no afterlife you sad fools'

Impossible to tell.

'religion should be banned'

Impossible.

[Leodegar]

Everyone deserves the god, he is believing in!

Just to get a little philosophic...

[Meneldil]

'there is no afterlife you sad fools'

Impossible to tell.

Schmurfs don't exist

Impossible to tell.

[Lentonius]

by what i said i meant the only way to see if there is an afterlife is if you die and see it, or not as the case may be

[solypsist]

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

[Paul Peru]

I hate their freedom!
no wait

[Adrian II]

However, there are many things nowadays in western culture that openly ridicules religion.

Nah, that was mainly in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries when religious institutions were powerful and had to be tackled, ridiculed and castrated to make room for healthier views of power, sexuality, etcetera. Today institutionalised religion has become largely irrelevant. Nobody cares about the 'position' of the churches on any subject. Religion has become a market niche and New Age has filled out most of that.

People who reflect on their beliefs or 'sacred' texts intelligently and with a sense of historic relativity have my undivided attention, but let's not be fooled by appearances. It has become practically impossible these days to 'cite' traditional, complex religious texts or themes in books, movies or commercials without being met with incomprehension on the part of the general public. Most modern-day believers dabble in all sorts of creeds and rituals, they stray this way and that and rarely reach a profound knowledge of what they are talking about. They don't fear or love God. They seek 'spirituality' as a hobby or as a thrill, in the same way that they go bungy-jumping, book adventure holidays or take belly-dancing lessons.

[Byzantine Prince]

I like your occupation, 'seraching for the meaning of life'. It is very funny. You picked the one thing no sensible philosopher can ever ask. Very well.

So there are people with different opinions out there. This is coming as quite a shock to me. I bet 100 dollars this is going to be another banal, 'smurfs exist!', 'old testament says that', 'that jesus sure knew how to live', discussion, that is killing the backroom by inches. Thank you for contributing.

[Meneldil]

Jesus was a socialist smurf anyway.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

your right Lentonius, there are many people (Philip Pullman, Richard Dawkins etc...) who seek to destroy religion, and for what reason?

one day maybee we will just accept each others beliefs!


Perhaps BP is right, all these discusions about religion are getting nowhere, to be able to refute something, you have to have a real go at believing it first, something both sides of this argument don't do enough

[Papewaio]

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

Nice analogy, I suppose the Internet is to the Printing Press as well... another scientific invention used so more people can pontificate about religion.

[ajaxfetish]

' all wars are caused by religion...'
'without religion the world would be a better place'
'there is no afterlife you sad fools'
'religion should be banned'

3 untestable (or nearly so) claims and the resulting conclusion. Well, I'm convinced.

Ajax

[Seamus Fermanagh]

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

Okay, Soly, you rarely make me laugh -- but this is a fun little reference.

[Reenk Roink]

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

To the Watchtower!

[Papewaio]

your right Lentonius, there are many people (Philip Pullman, Richard Dawkins etc...) who seek to destroy religion, and for what reason?

one day maybee we will just accept each others beliefs!


Perhaps BP is right, all these discusions about religion are getting nowhere, to be able to refute something, you have to have a real go at believing it first, something both sides of this argument don't do enough

I can live and let live.

However I do not agree that a system should be accepted just because someone has tacked on the word religion.

Too many encounters with New Agers confusing metaphysics with physics for starters and then crystal healing with geology for another.

Belief systems should be tested. Those that fail, often squeal about the fact that they have been tested. They don't consider that they may have learned something in the process of testing, nor do they consider that the break may point to a better understanding.

Rules are made to be broken.

[ajaxfetish]

Rules are made to be broken.

Does that include the forum rules?

Ajax

[Papewaio]

You can break them and see what you learn in the process... Is their a moderator? Well you will get positive proof pretty quick.

[Big_John]

entrapment!



... best thing about this thread is the word "schmurf".

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Belief systems should be tested. Those that fail, often squeal about the fact that they have been tested. They don't consider that they may have learned something in the process of testing, nor do they consider that the break may point to a better understanding.

of course, i agree!
thats why i suggested i method of testing, ''have a go at believing it first'' that is the best way to test anything.

I challenge some of the athisits who wish to test christianity, to attend an alpha course for a few weeks at your local church and talk with the people there about religion. I used to have many doubts, although i had never ceased being a christian i tested my faith and all of the arugments i could find against god fell to pieces! try it!

[Slyspy]

Or not! It is, after all, an individual choice.

[Mongoose]

"I used to have many doubts, although i had never ceased being a christian i tested my faith and all of the arugments i could find against god fell to pieces! try it!"

??? Can you explain why you think it fell to pieces? Otherwise, I think that it sounds like you went off to a 2 week brainwashing session

[Adrian II]

Jesus was a socialist smurf anyway.

Yeah, and Leonardo just doodled a bit, Voltaire only vented his anger over his syphilis and Jimi Hendrix couldn't really play the guiter, could he? Bunch of con-artists.

[master of the puppets]

Yeah, and Leonardo just doodled a bit, Voltaire only vented his anger over his syphilis and Jimi Hendrix couldn't really play the guiter, could he? Bunch of con-artists.

finally somone gets it. but i do bash religion cause it is foolish, humans are the only animals in the world who know that we will one day die and be gone forever, so in a futile attempt to give reason to our short lives and quick deaths we invented (da da daaaa) religion. i don't really ridicule religions ane call them completely false (i like to keep an open mind and listen to religios stuff) but it seems all to elaborate. i can understand that there may be some great divine force over our universe, but it is my belife that he may have created the spark of life and that it was threw evolution and nature and turmoil that we we were born, not some intelligent plan.

so next time don't bash the catholics, or lutherans, muslims or jews...BASH ME AND MY KOOKY RELIGION

[Azi Tohak]

That is the sensible approach, provided that children are allowed by their parents to 'live' as well. They must be taught about the various schools of thought and given the opportunity to think and experiment for themselves without being 'drilled' in one belief or another. We have seen the results of fundamentalist religious schools on the one hand and state-controlled atheist education (Soviet Union, China) on the other, and they are not encouraging.

And boy, those McGuffy readers in the US sure did screw up those generations didn't they? Installing ethics of hard-work, respect for authority and a sense of where we come from. I'm so happy they're banned! Along with Puritans being lampooned everywhere. This country is in so much better shape now that no morals are taught and a whisper of religion draws the ACLU like great-whites after blood.

finally somone gets it. but i do bash religion cause it is foolish, humans are the only animals in the world who know that we will one day die and be gone forever, so in a futile attempt to give reason to our short lives and quick deaths we invented (da da daaaa) religion. i don't really ridicule religions ane call them completely false (i like to keep an open mind and listen to religios [sic] stuff) but it seems all to elaborate. i can understand that there may be some great divine force over our universe, but it is my belife [sic] that he may have created the spark of life and that it was threw evolution and nature and turmoil that we we were born, not some intelligent plan.

so next time don't bash the catholics, or lutherans, muslims or jews...BASH ME AND MY KOOKY RELIGION

You bash religion because it is foolish. Because it entertains you. Is it just me or is that pathetic?

Azi

[Adrian II]

And boy, those McGuffy readers in the US sure did screw up those generations didn't they? Installing ethics of hard-work, respect for authority and a sense of where we come from. I'm so happy they're banned!

Who or what is banned? You mean the famous 1836 school book on reading and writing?

Which, by the way, is spelled 'McGuffey'?

And are you sure you are responding to my post?

[Byzantine Mercenary]

"I used to have many doubts, although i had never ceased being a christian i tested my faith and all of the arugments i could find against god fell to pieces! try it!"

??? Can you explain why you think it fell to pieces? Otherwise, I think that it sounds like you went off to a 2 week brainwashing session

well, i hadn't quite understood what god meant up to then, there was a lot i didn't know or understand about religion. I can assure you i wasn't brainwashed! i still hold different beliefs then the others at the alpha group have and still argue with some of what they said. However the experience was very benificial, even though i did not join their church (they didn't mind if i did or not) due to time constraints.

[Weebeast]

I think if believers can keep their faith to themselves all this bashing/hating wouldn't have happened. I got this "leave me alone, I leave you alone" policy. Believers always break it. The dissapointment in non-believers has thickened so now they attack in any given moment.

I was a believer once (I still am. I just threw out most things except the god part). I knew I didn't have to make other people do what I do to secure my position in heaven. It seems hard for most believers to realize that.