Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34

Thread: The obligatory Unit thread!

  1. #1
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    n0rg3
    Posts
    3,510

    Default The obligatory Unit thread!

    This will be the unit speculation and wishlist thread, here we talk all about units (only), and how they will function, so what units would you like to see and how would they function?

    I would love CA if they would put unique low tier militia for muslim factions (and i mean not the generic urban militia everyone got), for example Beduin Warbands, Beduin/Ashaer Cavalry.. etc these would generally have decent attack, low defence and cheap (with poor morale). Also upgraded versions like beduin nobles (heavier version of the lighter cavalry).

    Also an upgraded AUM for the almohads so they won't suck in the late period, call them the Almohad Urban Cohorts.

    So don't be shy, mention whatever unit you'd like (fictional or not, but don't exaggerate the fictional units to superhuman proportions), and hope CA would read this thread and take our advice!
    Texas is Gods country! - SFTS
    SFTS = The rest =


  2. #2

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    hmmm what units Superman! nah just kidding. I want Pagan Milita from my Pagan lands. This would of course lower your statis with the Pope but who listens to him? Pope what Pope HOLY CRAP THEIR IS A POPE, to bad im pagan. Not Uber untis just so that your Pagan provances dont get mad at you by having a garison of Christian Knights. I wouldnt take to kind to that if i was a peasant but then agian im king arnt I yay for me. Also i wouldnt mind Russian Raiders for when they are at war with Mongols. Russia never did take to kind to people in their land. MOTHER LAND. Ya thats about it i will probly think of more and post agian. Kool thread thanks for starting
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    When you find yourself sinking into madness, Dive!
    WE WANT A...............DEMO!
    This message is brought to you by the Demo Legions. If you have the Demo remember this, We will find you!

  3. #3

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal

    Also an upgraded AUM for the almohads so they won't suck in the late period, call them the Almohad Urban Cohorts.
    Upgraded AUMs!!!

    Aye Carumba!

    They were kick-ass enough to begin with - cheap, easily available, +1 Valour in Granada, easy acces to Iron to upgrade armour....

    I know what you're saying though about the weak Almohad roster in the later game, I always interpreted this as CAs attempt to reflect the decline of the Moors in Spain - they did the same with the Byzantines.
    "I request permanent reassignment to the Gallic frontier. Nay, I demand reassignment. Perhaps it is improper to say so, but I refuse to fight against the Greeks or Macedonians any more. Give my command to another, for I cannot, I will not, lead an army into battle against a civilized nation so long as the Gauls survive. I am not the young man I once was, but I swear before Jupiter Optimus Maximus that I shall see a world without Gauls before I take my final breath."

    Senator Augustus Verginius

  4. #4
    Tree Killer Senior Member Beirut's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    8,168

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Armoured Longbowmen.

    My own little MLRS units.
    Unto each good man a good dog

  5. #5
    Member caspian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Never-Nerver Land
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Some type of Kensai Unit, don't know how historic it would be but an uber-one-man unit really kicks ass.
    Or a Hashishin/Battlefield Ninja unit for the Catholics.

  6. #6
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    The TARDIS
    Posts
    2,040

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Hussite war wagons.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    In many ways, I find it easier to think of MTW units I'd like to see cut, than new ones I'd like to see introduced. My hit list would include:

    * Kataphracts - replace with mercenary Frankish knights

    * Byzantine infantry - give them long spears, not swords. By that time, they were an anti-cavalry shield, not medieval legionnaires.

    * Almohad urban militia - remove the half-plate (where on earth did that idea come from?)

    * Saracen infantry - do not make them more heavily armoured than the early European spears (unless they are just dismounted Saracen heavy cavalry)

    * Mid period Arbalests - move them to late

    * Spanish lancers - make them less heavily armoured than the other late period Catholic knights (& give Gothic knights lances, as well as maces, & allow England and France to have them)

    * Sword armed Men-at-arms units - make them just the dismounted version of knights or mounted sergeants, and give them "spears" (anti-cavalry properties) due to their lances

    Indeed, I think the unit classes of MTW need totally rethinking and probably blurring. I don't think the swords vs spears distinction is historical - virtually no units in that period were solely armed with swords (& certainly not the Byzantines or the Almohad urban militia). Moreover, the more heavily armed European fighters would typically have horses and so have the option of dismounting. Certainly, with the English medieval army, the knights and men-at-arms would be both the best "spears" (anti-cav infantry), the best "swords" (shock infantry) and the best cavalry (heavy cavalry). The French knights might have been initially more reluctant to dismount, but did do so routinely after stumbling against the effective anti-cav English "spear+longbow" combo.

    With the early/mid-period Catholic European armies, I would like to see distinctions made more in terms of "soft factors" such as training and proficiency than "hard factors" such as weapon type (although armour and mount would remain a key hard factor). With the evolution of polearms and the reintroduction of the pike, then weapon-based classes would start to become more distinct.

    Having early/mid knight/men-at-arms units that simultaneously excel at several roles might reduce the "rock-paper-scissors" aspect of the game, but I'd prefer historical accuracy to an artificially introduced gameplay. Balancing such multi-use powerful units would be a challenge but there are enough options (support cost, build time, unit size, tech requirements etc) to do it. Moreover, if it wanted to, CA could even introduce an additional quantitative constraint on the pool of such "elite" units (e.g. you can't have more elites than provinces etc).

  8. #8

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    I only really care about Scotland and Byzantium myself. Here's what I'd like to see:

    Scotland:
    Scottish Pikemen
    Mosstroopers (light cavalry)
    Hebridean Pirates
    Highland Clansmen (no tartan, please!)

    Byzantium:
    Kontaratoi (absolutely agree with the point about spearmen)
    Menavliatoi (still agree with the point about spearmen)
    Tzangratoi (Byzantines did have crossbowmen eventually, just not very good ones)
    Trebizond archers that are only recruitable in Trebizond
    Any sort of advanced units at all (I mean, if you change history so that the Byzantines reign supreme once more, you're not going to see the same military decline, are you?)
    Some Western mercenaries like Latin Knights

    And above all I want to see ACCURATE units! I don't mind about native languages or anything, so 'Byzantine spearmen' are alright by me (the names can be changed), but I do want proper unit rosters.

  9. #9
    Pining for the glory days... Member lancelot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Land of Hope & Glory
    Posts
    1,198

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    All I want is Varangian Guards dressed in the ceremonial armour that they were shown in on the info card in MTW1

    I dont care if it is accurate or not, those guys were sweet, I cant wait to have them chewing through a battlefield...

    ...must control breathing...
    "England expects that every man will do his duty" Lord Nelson

    "Extinction to all traitors" Megatron

    "Lisa, if the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing and such and such." Homer Simpson

  10. #10

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    dragons


  11. #11
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Malaysia and Australia
    Posts
    1,287

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Byzantines woefully suck in 1080, if only they'd have pushed it back 80yrs back...ubt oh well.

    I want detailed Timurid heavy cavalry tarkhan "hero" units

    I want nice detailed lancer/archer Georgian heavy cavalry
    Retired from games altogether!!

    Feudalism TOtal War, non-active member and supporter. Long Live Orthodox Christianity!

  12. #12
    Member Member Taliferno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    N.Ireland
    Posts
    89

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Historically correct Irish and Scottish units (see Ranikas post at the .com to see what they should be).

    If they get them right then they can include flying, diving, burrowing, fire breathing, Aztec Dragon Warriors for all I care.

  13. #13
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The dark side
    Posts
    5,383

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor
    Hussite war wagons.
    Yeah, that would completely rock for the late period

    Cool with a new subforum btw. I hope CA tries a more historical approach this time. I don't think it's necessary for them to remove things like Chivalric Men-at-Arms and other generic units, but I hope for removal of priests and dogs etc., the gameplay and mechanics of battles are interesting and complex enough as it is with light, shock and heavy version of all units, plus the possibility of adding a secondary weapon (javelin, dart etc.) for many units (a part of their engine potential I think they haven't taken full advantage of yet - and when they did they gave the units a little too much ammo for pila IMO). So my unit lists wish is - units that use the full secondary weapon potential of the engine but without giving them too much ammo!
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  14. #14
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    I want the military orders to be somewhat expanded. Not just knights and their foot soldiers. They often had several tiers of units.

    The heaviest possible knights for Denmark too. The knights were in absolute control in Denmark and after the initial backwardness they caught up and became very well armed in gothic armour and the like.

    Landsknechts would be a nice period determined mercenary unit, perhaps also recruitable for the HRE? Should also have a few tiers.

    Wendic raiders/warriors. Light infantry found on the northern coast of Germany (Baltic side) and Poland. Fast and speararmed. Pointy helmet but no armour and a large round shield... Come to think of it, they would be pretty generic. But their defensive value would be good, and they would be cheap. Merc and rebel only.
    Add in Wendic nobles, and then you get a swordarmed version with a little armour as well.

    Flemish Militia! We can't leave them out. Spear infantry with AP (since we can't have a true mix of weapons). Fairly heavy armour.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  15. #15
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The dark side
    Posts
    5,383

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by caspian
    Some type of Kensai Unit, don't know how historic it would be but an uber-one-man unit really kicks ass.
    Or a Hashishin/Battlefield Ninja unit for the Catholics.
    If they want historical uber units they can always choose between the al-murabitin, the viking berserkers and/or joms vikings (would however be removed in the later eras), the varangian guard, templars/hospitallers, etc. But I personally think it's more fun if those uber units have as many men as the normal units, like the gaesatae in EB . It makes them possible to use in a more natural way, otherwise they're always flanked, surrounded etc., or have to be as overpowered as the berserkers in BI (who could easily rout a whole early era army alone and didn't get very tired in the process).
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  16. #16
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Ah but the Berserkers of VI on the other hand were in my mind almost perfectly balanced. Sure a superb normal sized units would be cool, in fact I would prefer it, but I doubt that will happen. And if it does, then we will see Urban Cohort Mk 2.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  17. #17
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The dark side
    Posts
    5,383

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraxis
    Ah but the Berserkers of VI on the other hand were in my mind almost perfectly balanced.
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraxis
    Sure a superb normal sized units would be cool, in fact I would prefer it, but I doubt that will happen. And if it does, then we will see Urban Cohort Mk 2.
    Yeah, the main problem is that the engine completely lacks any other means of limiting recruitment possibilities of certain units other than through cost. Would be a great thing both for the MTW2 game and for mods to allow some other control mechanism to limit such stuff. Not 100% of all men who are fit for military service have the mentality to be able to fight like a berserker... Maybe it could be tied to province population, so different units could require different population sizes to be recruited, i.e. a simple militia unit could be recruited everywhere, but good shock troops would be the best of the best and only one in a thousand would be good enough, i.e. as a parameter in the units file...
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  18. #18

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Some more Scottish units:

    Some of these i would see as province specific

    - Gallowegian Infantry (demanded the inital attack at the Battle of the Standard 1138)

    - Ettrick archers

    - Orcadian Norse warriors

    - Lowland Pikemen - Early and Late period versions

    - Galloglaich

    - Gael champions

  19. #19
    Member Member Azi Tohak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Smallville USA.
    Posts
    971

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Darned, you guys already got my pick of the super Aztecs. Blech.

    Anyway, I think the war-wagons would be fantastic. I've liked them ever since I first heard about Jan Hus. Do I have any clue how they would be implemented? Nope! Does it matter? Nah, it is not for me to figure that out. All I need to do is buy the game! But truthfully, I don't expect them to make it into the game. Too esoteric for your average Halo ape.

    I just can't help but wonder if the strat map units might live up to their potential. I doubt it, but I know in RTW a fair number of extras were removed. Well-poisioning for example. I don't think it will appear in this game either, but hey, I can hope!

    Azi
    "If you don't want to work, become a reporter. That awful power, the public opinion of the nation, was created by a horde of self-complacent simpletons who failed at ditch digging and shoemaking and fetched up journalism on their way to the poorhouse."
    Mark Twain 1881

  20. #20
    AKA Leif 3000 TURBO Senior Member Leet Eriksson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    n0rg3
    Posts
    3,510

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor
    Hussite war wagons.
    the first game didn't have the hussite rebellion, but now that there is a chance for it, might as well add the hussite faction and their war wagons!
    Texas is Gods country! - SFTS
    SFTS = The rest =


  21. #21
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    I have a somewhat radical request in regards to Urban Militia and Militia Seargents. I would love them to have a valour bonus when defending cities against assault. While of course not being trained professional soldiers, they do have 2 very important things in their favor:

    1.) They're fighting to defend their homes, their families, and their livelihoods.
    2.) They're obviously going to be more familiar with the layout of the town, which should give them a natural advantage over their attackers.

    I still expect them to be crappy in regular field battles just like they are now, but I don't think it's unreasonable that UM and MS should receive *some* type of bonus when defending towns/cities against an attack.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  22. #22
    Forever British Member King Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The only place that matters: Britain
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Same units as medieval total war, with a few suprises.
    Vote For The British nationalist Party.
    Say no to multi-culturalism.

  23. #23
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Don of Lon.
    Posts
    2,845

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Basically what I want is all the units in BKB's mod! That would be perfect. Especially Champion Swordsmen. Wow, they were so cool. 16 of them could butcher an army of over a thousand medium spearmen. Anyway, I want:
    Skutatoi to give the Byz good spearmen
    Cheaper feudal knights
    Flemish mercenaries (in the early period for the Western Kingdoms, these should be able to be recruited 24/7, not just when some happen to be passing in the region). They were the staple of many kingdoms in the 1100s.
    No obselence (if it isn't broke, why fix it?)
    www.thechap.net
    "We were not born into this world to be happy, but to do our duty." Bismarck
    "You can't be a successful Dictator and design women's underclothing. One or the other. Not both." The Right Hon. Bertram Wilberforce Wooster
    "Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication" - Lord Byron
    "Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." - C. S. Lewis

  24. #24
    For England and St.George Senior Member ShadesWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Staffordshire, England
    Posts
    3,938

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    I hope we dont just get a copy of MTW (1) units list, anyway my list will add

    Levied Longbow
    Retained Longbow
    Mercenary Longbow (the type used by Burgundy)
    Crossbows from Genoa (elite mercenary)
    Spiked club men (Flemish)
    Bohemian archers
    ShadesWolf
    The Original HHHHHOWLLLLLLLLLLLLER

    Im a Wolves fan, get me out of here......


  25. #25
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by faisal
    the first game didn't have the hussite rebellion, but now that there is a chance for it, might as well add the hussite faction and their war wagons!
    Not directly, but it could happen since the Hussite herecy was part of the game. And that could get problematic if you didn't expect it.

    Genoan Crossbowmen... Had almost forgot about them. YEAH! They are a damned must, especially since Genoa isn't in the game as a faction (what the heck?!?). The sailors of MTW were pathetic, so I hope Genoa gets their famous crossbowmen.

    Skutatoi would also be nice, Byz Inf with spears instead.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  26. #26
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    9,063
    Blog Entries
    1

    Lightbulb Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    I have a somewhat radical request in regards to Urban Militia and Militia Seargents. I would love them to have a valour bonus when defending cities against assault. While of course not being trained professional soldiers, they do have 2 very important things in their favor:

    1.) They're fighting to defend their homes, their families, and their livelihoods.
    2.) They're obviously going to be more familiar with the layout of the town, which should give them a natural advantage over their attackers.

    I still expect them to be crappy in regular field battles just like they are now, but I don't think it's unreasonable that UM and MS should receive *some* type of bonus when defending towns/cities against an attack.
    This sounds good, but what I would like even more is that each castle and city come with their own garrison/militia, that only appear when the province is invaded. This would slow down attackers (as the defender will get a free army out of thin air) and be historically accurate, as a King could call on his soldiers to leave their province only for a limited amount of time (or he had to pay them), but when the province was threathened he got them for free.
    Looking for a good read? Visit the Library!

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    9,651

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    No obselence (if it isn't broke, why fix it?)
    Not sure what you mean here, but if you are saying you should be allowed to upgrade existing units with better kit as the technology improves, I'd give that a big thumbs up.

  28. #28
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    No I think he is talking about the Varangians (and others) vanishing...
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  29. #29
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    In my own little world....but it's okay, they know me there.
    Posts
    8,257

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens
    This sounds good, but what I would like even more is that each castle and city come with their own garrison/militia, that only appear when the province is invaded. This would slow down attackers (as the defender will get a free army out of thin air) and be historically accurate, as a King could call on his soldiers to leave their province only for a limited amount of time (or he had to pay them), but when the province was threathened he got them for free.

    Heh. I almost made that suggestion myself, but then dismissed it, as I thought I'd be ridiculed outright. As it turns out, though, a poster (I want to say her name is Ranika) proposed virtually the same thing over at the official site. I'm definitely all for that idea!
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  30. #30
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default Re: The obligatory Unit thread!

    Hmmm... That could work very well with the expanded timepriod and four seasons. The main problem with four seasons is that the players can in certain cases just blast ahead and win the game within 40 years if not less. That is just not cool at all. This way you are forced to fight at every step of the way. Added to the fact that you need a loyalty-generating garrison, it would take quite a bit of time to get going.

    Of course, since RTW introduced the culture thing, maybe that can be added to this feature so that the free militia doesn't come unless you have less than 10% culture difference (and then only partially, with more at 5% and the full deal at 0%)? That way would recently conquered places be rather weak and in need of the professional troops,thus slowing down the impossible advances we have been able to perform.

    I guess some would complain at this, that it would be too problematic. Well, would it really? Then each siege would be fun as you would need plenty troops to take the place, and it is always fun to slaughter militia. Further it would benefit the more deliberate attackers, those who plan out their attacks to the full and those who try to generate another 'home'.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO