Do you think the Aztec faction will work?

[King Ragnar]

Ive been thinking latley that instead of having a Aztec faction, they should just add another to Europe, Eurasia. For example the Flemish in western Europe, or perhaps the Cumans the east.

Your thoughts?

[TB666]

As a normal faction no it wouldn't.
We will have to wait for 400 years before the spanish arrives and just sit there and do nothing would be boring.
But if CA manage to create a way so that we are busy for 400 years then yes they can work.

[Zatoichi]

I think it's good that we will actually get to see another continent at last! I don't suppose they'll be playable from the get go - I imagine the game will be split into eras, and they'll only appear in the final era. It's good that this version of MTW will do new things compared to the original in my opinion.

As long is i does all the old stuff better, of course!

[Antiochius]

no, no ,no Actecs are a very bad idea. i hope the developers will change this

[bozkirsovalyesi]

aztecs many piece of nonsense
big nonsense
..............................................

The map should be between The 25th and the 65th North latiudes---20th West and 75th East parallels.

[The_Doctor]

I really think they will be in seperate campiagn that only has central and south america.

Also, it says they are playable in mulitplayer and custom battles. So far nobody has said they can be played in a SP campaign.

[Leonin Khan]

i think it will suck but they said it will be a mini campaign...so it might be separate from the european map...and it will get shipments from the home city...like in AoE 3

[Vladimir]

Bad Idea, but I guess they had to include them given the time period.

[econ21]

My heart sank, but if it is a mini-campaign, it won't be a biggie.

A full blown Conquistadors: Total War would be great though - focusing on the rivalry between the European Powers in the New World, say from Columbus up until the birth of the US.

[player1]

I think it would be something like that if some specific conditions are met you gain option to discover America.

Then you can send some troops to conquer the Aztec (mexico show as seperate minimap) and boost your gold reserve, helping you in the endgame of medieval campaign.

[Katana]

Yeah, I don't think Aztecs are a good idea. But who knows, maybe CA will pull it off.

[Kraxis]

My heart sank, but if it is a mini-campaign, it won't be a biggie.

A full blown Conquistadors: Total War would be great though - focusing on the rivalry between the European Powers in the New World, say from Columbus up until the birth of the US.

... and then I thought Colonization: Total War...

[King Ragnar]

It could be a hint to the expansion planned, who knows though?

[King Henry V]

I hope they don't stick into the the vanilla campaign no matter what the start date. It would just make the map all weird.
What would good though is if they do a map that includes Central America, Northern South America and the Carribean. The Spanish should start off with just a couple of provinces (Cuba and Hispaniola for instance) that would bleed money from the beginning and with limited options to train more troops than the original Spanish expeditionary force, just like the Vikings in VI. However, Europe must not be included in that expansion pack.

[The_Doctor]

I think we should wait until we have more info.

[Shahed]

Yeah we should, I'd guess it's a non playbale faction in a large campaign and could be a playable faction in a mini campaign.

[Slasher]

Yeah, I suspect that they will be in a mini campaign as CA said and the main campaign will be with Europe only....unless they cut out the main campaign and just have a series of mini campaigns...which WOULD appeal to your casual gamer....oh the speculation

[Antiochius]

I would prefer perhabs the Hungary. Okay, they havn`t play a great role at this time (except the Hungary attacks on western Europe)
will there be Denmark or sweden? If no, i also would take one of this nations, but i havn`t the list of the nations in my head

[Doug-Thompson]

Well, as a cavalry fanatic, I can't wait to come to New World with horse archers.

[Spino]

No.

I was thrilled to see the official announcement for Medieval 2 but I really chafed when I saw the inclusion of the Aztecs as a faction (playable or non-playable). They are completely out of place in a game that spans from 1080 to 1530 and features empire building in medieval Europe, N. Africa and W. Asia. Rather than make the sensible decision and expand the map further east to include Asiatic factions/civilizations that were quite advanced for their time and who didn't get the nod in the original Medieval (Khwarazmian kingdom) it seems like CA has opted to ride the coat tails of Age of Empires 3 and give gamers some of that New World loving. Including the Aztecs seems so silly when you consider that the Spanish discovery of the New World is a scant 38 years from the conclusion of the campaign game.

[Midnight]

The Aztecs do look more than a little out of place on the faction list, and I'd also have preferred more notice being taken of the eastern nations, but I'd like to know exactly how they plan to integrate the Aztecs into the game before saying whether or not they'll work.

[Doug-Thompson]

... when you consider that the Spanish discovery of the New World is a scant 38 years from the conclusion of the campaign game.

Yes, but Cortez conquest was complete by the end of 1521, nine years before the game ends. It was an historical event of profound importance. Honestly, how could it be ignored? It will have to be part of the victory conditions of a Spanish faction, for instance.

The only part that bothers me is: Whether or not CA will modify plague rules severely enough to realisticaly model the effect on the Aztecs.

Two out of every five Aztecs in their capital city died, if memory serves, of smallpox pretty shortly after Cortez arrived. Frankly, it doesn't sound like a pleasant prospect to me to play a faction where you suffer 40 percent casualties before landing a blow.

[Antiochius]

Rather than make the sensible decision and expand the map further east to include Asiatic factions/civilizations that were quite advanced for their time and who didn't get the nod in the original Medieval (Khwarazmian kingdom) it seems like CA has opted to ride the coat tails of Age of Empires 3 and give gamers some of that New World loving. Including the Aztecs seems so silly when you consider that the Spanish discovery of the New World is a scant 38 years from the conclusion of the campaign game.

Yes that is a very good idea. One should include some asiatic factions, so it could be a mix of Medieval and Shogun

[Brutus]

Yes, but Cortez conquest was complete by the end of 1521, nine years before the game ends. It was an historical event of profound importance. Honestly, how could it be ignored? It will have to be part of the victory conditions of a Spanish faction, for instance.

Hmm, I think Europeans at the time (especially in 1521) thought other developments much more important thant the conquest of Mexico. The main geo-political events concerning Europeans in the early 16th century mainly revolved around the Ottoman conquest of the Balkans, the Habsburg-Valois rivalry and (very quickly becoming important, but not really before the German Peasant's War) the Reformation. The Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire was far more important in the long term then it was in the short term, and the impact on Europe was very marginal in the 9 years between 1521 and 1530.

I hope they won't be included as a fully-fledged faction. They would be out of place.

[Kraxis]

Who says that we can only get here in 1492?

The capability to get the Americas was there since... well the Vikings to be honest. It was the will that lacked.
Sure it got easier with the compass and other inventions, but sailors were not bad at knowing which way was what even without them.

So I think it is going to be a case of certain requirements are filled for the chance to go to America is opened.
And I cincerely doubt the Aztecs will be playable in the normal sense. And I doubt that their lands are part of the main map. As they say, it is an extension of the map. That sounds like, a ship that goes [here] will end up in another map.

[Doug-Thompson]

Hmm, I think Europeans at the time (especially in 1521) thought other developments much more important thant the conquest of Mexico. The main geo-political events concerning Europeans in the early 16th century mainly revolved around the Ottoman conquest of the Balkans, the Habsburg-Valois rivalry and (very quickly becoming important, but not really before the German Peasant's War) the Reformation. The Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire was far more important in the long term then it was in the short term, and the impact on Europe was very marginal in the 9 years between 1521 and 1530.

I respectfully disagree. A few shiploads of Aztec gold would have made any of those tasks much easier.

As somebody is quoted in R:TW as saying: "They have an abundance of gold and silver, which makes war, like other things, much easier."

Also, Kraxis makes an excellent point. Columbus had been lobbying for the expedition since 1485.

[Brutus]

I respectfully disagree. A few shiploads of Aztec gold would have made any of those tasks much easier.

As somebody is quoted in R:TW as saying: "They have an abundance of gold and silver, which makes war, like other things, much easier."

Also, Kraxis makes an excellent point. Columbus had been lobbying for the expedition since 1485.

As far as I know, the main economic consequence of the Spanish conquest of the America's was through the mining of silver, not by the golden treasure of the Aztecs. I have however no real idea how great the original Aztec treasure was. This would have taken a little longer to take effect. Also, if (in the game) you conquered these treasures in 1521, you would only have about 9 years (wich would be... 18 turns?) to use it, which wouldn't be very long.

Of course, I agree with the both of you that there would be no reason why a nation couldn't discover the America's before 1492 in the game (apart from the Vikings, there are several other claims, amongst which some Irish (apart from St. Brendan) and Portuguese, to have 'discovered' America before Columbus, I believe). That would however leave the problem of the Aztecs only becoming a 'nation' recognisable in history in the mid-14th century, so they would be very late-game.

[Voigtkampf]

I am most suspicious about the Aztecs. I will have to wait and see the end result, but at this point, I hardly think they will fit in to the game the way they should. The reasonable expansion would be, as Spino said, towards east. And it would be one that would be, IMDHO of course, far more interesting.

[Kraxis]

That would however leave the problem of the Aztecs only becoming a 'nation' recognisable in history in the mid-14th century, so they would be very late-game.

I doubt the game will consider that for that reason.
I just think that in the 1350s or so the timerequirement is completed and then you can begin to fill the others. So around 1400, which was indeed a naval time you should be set for going to America. But it would be that time because the cultural feeling lacked substial amounts of will previously. In the late 14th and early 15th the will was suddenly there. European culture was now redy to go out and look.

I stress, that I do not think the Aztecs are playable in the main campaign. Even the most foolish PR announcer can understand they would be horribly boring if played from 1080 (which would be rather impossible, but then again time has never been a problem).

[GoreBag]

I think it's a good idea. I'm sure the faction will emergy a la BI at a certain point, and the map will be off-limits until then or something else that will be justified. CA has never put Aztecs in their games before, why not? It makes perfect sense.