So...is BI worth getting ?

[doc_bean]

Now that it's been released for quite a while, I think it's probably possible to get a more balanced opinion on this. Is BI worth getting ? Is it just more of the same (the impression i got from the demo) or does it really add something ?

[A.Saturnus]

Yes, it does add something. My impression is that with BI, Rome is just a rounder game.

[Slug For A Butt]

Definitely worth getting. More challenge, better def on most units for longer batles and different challenge now we are past the age of the Phalanx.
I love it. That's not to say there aren't a few issues with it. But yeah, I'm enjoying it.

[Monarch]

Yeah it's very good imo. With the introduction of hordes, vast empires at the start which give you a target to take out, or keep. I think also it can keep you interested throughout the entire campaign, I mean you could be an unrivalled superpower but then the Hunnic hordes come your way and all of a sudden your back into rebuilding.

Although I bought it too early, I went straight from vanilla to BI and am now going back to RTW to play some mods. If you havn't played RTR or EB or something yet then I suggest you att least do a campaign before getting BI, you might end up like me and have to go through re-installs just to play mods .

[x-dANGEr]

For a campaign, it is a nice game. For MP, surely not.

[Rilder]

Not really that great in my opinion, i mean theres less factions you can start out as, your family members cost 400 denarii a turn to keep *fixed that tho* and i just dont like it, the 2 romans factions suck because you start out huge which ihate and i really wanna play as romans

[econ21]

I think it is the best TW expansion so far. In a way, it is "more of the same", as what you get - given that you can download the patch for vanilla RTW without buying BI - is another campaign setting. But what a campaign setting! It uses the full RTW map and gives you a choice of around 10 or so factions in a game that lasts for around 100 years.

Each faction has sensible and appropriate faction-specific victory conditions. They differ wildly in their strategic setting - the WRE and ERE are massive, vulnerable empires; the Sassinids are closest to a RTW-type faction with a fully fledged kingdom ready to cause trouble; the Huns and Vandals start off as big Mongol type hordes with no provinces; some others - Goths, Franks & Samartians - are likely to have to form hordes as they lose their homelands; others - Saxons, Allemani & Celts - start very small and have to work their way up. It is almost like a RTW2 in its scale.

At a tactical level, the Romans still have a powerful line up but there is more non-Roman heavy infantry and heavy cavalry to challenge them. There are no phalanx-based armies; for which I am a little grateful - the RTW AI can neither use them nor fight them - the schiltron and the shieldwall are not worth bothering with, IMO. Many of the horde type armies are very horse archer heavy like the Parthians but with a bit more muscle on foot.

But BI campaigns do add something new in terms of gameplay, IMO - vanilla RTW is a little like MTW in early: the factions are underdeveloped and you basically slowly build up, fighting your way to the top against a rather lagging AI that struggles to keep up with you. In BI, many of the AI factions are rather more developed and they often rampage around - especially the hordes - in a threatening and unpredictable way. You may get a quiet RTW type building game, but you may end up fighting for your life.

I'm not sure to what extent the patch has "backdated" some of the changes introduced to BI to the vanilla game. Certainly, I find missiles significantly less effective than in pre-BI RTW and cavalry also seems more expensive and less robust. This re-balancing is all good, IMO, for both historical and gameplay reasons. I think units have higher defence stats generally, so combat lasts a little longer. Perhaps linked to that, I am encountering less "insta-routs". It is also harder to get lots of command stars for your general, which makes the campaign less of a cakewalk.

For what it is worth, I did not find many ahistorical things in BI equivalent to the pigs, dogs, screeching women, Egyptians etc that caused offense in vanilla RTW (but, on that note, do NOT look at the Roxiolani units - or you might think CA has signed up the Italian women's football team to model their units).

[Gaius Magnus]

I've had RTW since it first came out and I just got BI this past week. I had started playing RTR 6.2 recently, but decided to see if BI was any better than the vanilla RTW campaign.

When I first started playing BI I was severely disappointed in the arcade-like graphics of the starting maps, logos, banners, and units. I mean come on! They look so terrible, like something from a Super Nintendo game or something. So I kept playing anyway (as the ERE) and it did seem like more of the same to me. I have not played it all that much, but I went back to playing RTR. I'm sure I'll play more as time goes on. I might play a little today even!

Does BI get better as it goes? It really seems like more of the same except for terrible skins, less unit variation, less factions to choose from, and .... more of the same.

I really hope the RTR team does a remake of BI, but their forums have been down for a while... Are they going kaput?

[Ludens]

I really hope the RTR team does a remake of BI, but their forums have been down for a while... Are they going kaput?

As far as I can see the R:TR forums are still online. Or are you visiting the www.rometotalrealism.com? That isn't he official site anymore; it's now www.rometotalrealism.org. You can find the new Gold version over there.

[Watchman]

Most of the barbarians and all of the nomads now have shirts on. I fail to see where that rates as "arcade-like" or "terrible skins." Were I not so lazy and otherwise occupied I'd already have tried to persuade vanilla RTW to use them too...

Even the superheavy cavalry have been to a style consultant. The old ones with their cloaks were kinda ugly (and the Parthian ones downright garish).

[TinCow]

When I first started playing BI I was severely disappointed in the arcade-like graphics of the starting maps, logos, banners, and units. I mean come on! They look so terrible, like something from a Super Nintendo game or something.

You think the BI graphics look arcade-like but the RTW graphics don't? How exactly are they different?

[rory_20_uk]

On the whole it's worth getting, although as said some of the best features have been ported back (units able to swim for example).

As with the vanilla, mods do add to the game especially those that increase the size of the map and increase the number of cities which are a bit thin on the ground.

Religion is a nice extra (should have been in Rome really).

If nothing else it adds more for the modders to work on, and that alone makes is a worthy investment.

[Gaius Magnus]

You think the BI graphics look arcade-like but the RTW graphics don't? How exactly are they different?

The original graphics at least looked polished, the graphics for BI are glaring and they look like they were hastily thrown together. I cannot stand the dayglo Sassanid blue. It is hideous.

[Watchman]

It's a bit odd, granted, but I find it a lot more tolerable (especially at a distance) than the old Parthian pink. Those Eastern Inf hordes were... nasty.

[Razor1952]

Re: So...is BI worth getting ?


Absolutely the best expansion yet. Playing WRE was by far the most interesting strategic game I've played so far.

The problem of having to fix rather than build up an empire is quite a different challenge. Add in Hordes/religion/loyalty/meaningful faction leaders plus numerous tweaks and fixes and BI is streets ahead of vanilla RTW.

So if its campaign strategy you want then BI is the one . If all you do is battles then not so much though night battles are great fun.

[Swordsman]

Worth getting, but mainly to play as the Hordes. IMO playing as ERE or WRE isn't much of a challenge as you are so huge to start out with. But I've had some really enjoyable campaigns as the various Hordes.

[Slug For A Butt]

The original graphics at least looked polished, the graphics for BI are glaring and they look like they were hastily thrown together. I cannot stand the dayglo Sassanid blue. It is hideous.

I think the skins for BI are better, certainly. So they have used some in yer face colours... that doesn't make the graphics bad.
And, as has already been mentioned, it's no worse than Parthian Pink.
I think you ought to think about it before you jump on the bandwagon. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that BI is "Super Nintendo" and I think you have too. Make your own mind up.

[Gaius Magnus]

I think the skins for BI are better, certainly. So they have used some in yer face colours... that doesn't make the graphics bad.
And, as has already been mentioned, it's no worse than Parthian Pink.
I think you ought to think about it before you jump on the bandwagon. I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that BI is "Super Nintendo" and I think you have too. Make your own mind up.

I'm the one who said that.

[caspian]

It adds some new things to the game, things that are worth it in my opinion.

I was playing as the Franks and just had my last city occupied by the WRE. I was surprised when the game didn't end. Some four full stack horde armies emerge from my ex-city and now I'm a Horde faction. Its now harder to eliminate factions because they just 'horde' their way out of extinction.

And about the colors, I've read that most barbarian peoples during these times do wear garish and color-blinding clothes.

And I'll be waiting for a a RTR-BI version.

[SauveQuiPeut]

Colourful perhaps, but they would tend to be dull colours after a wash or two. Or a rainstorm.

[SirGrotius]

I found BI definitely worth it.

I really like "religion" as a game factor. Cities convert too fast, but otherwise, it's implemented simply and enjoyably.

As others have said, the Horde factor is enjoyable as well. Mostly, it's more difficult to destroy a faction. Horde armies (these are multiple stacks) generally stay together, so get ready for some long battles unless you're able to draw them out. The only time I've seen stacks leave the main pack is if they have good leaders (3 or more stars).

It definitely has a distinct feel, very apocalyptic.

[dagiz]

so, I guess my main question with this would be along the lines of the actual battle maps.

were the battles made to alst a little bit longer than they were? that was the one thing that i really enjoyed in mtw, but found that the length was lacking a little in rtw.

[econ21]

I don't think the battle maps are bigger, but the battles do seem to last a bit longer. Partly, that's because the armies are bigger - the hordes start off with around 5 full stacks, for example. And partly because defence stats have been raised, so kill rates are lower.

The campaigns themselves are significantly shorter than MTW or RTW however.

[LestaT]

Definately worth getting as that's the platform for 2 great upcoming mods, EB & RTR 7.0 :-)

[Azi Tohak]

I really do like BI. I think the AI is improved (or maybe it is simply the higher defense and lack of targets.. err phalanx units), and the campaigns are fun because with the large size of provinces you don't have the cash to keep a large number of big armies in the field. Reminds me of MTW.

But is it worth getting? Depends on the price you find it at!

Azi

[doc_bean]

But is it worth getting? Depends on the price you find it at!

I do find 30€ a tad expensive for an expansion pack, maybe the price will go down now that the Gold edition is getting released ?

[Monarch]

I do find 30€ a tad expensive for an expansion pack, maybe the price will go down now that the Gold edition is getting released ?

Where are you looking? £15 on play.com, plus I believe they deliver to lots of european countries, you'll probably get chagred £s on your credit card though. Full list i jsut pasted from their helpdesk.

* Andorra
* Austria
* Belgium
* Cyprus
* Denmark
* England
* Finland
* France
* Germany
* Gibraltar
* Greece



* Greenland
* Guernsey
* Iceland
* Ireland
* Italy
* Jersey
* Liechtenstein
* Luxembourg
* Malta
* Monaco
* Netherlands



* Northern Ireland
* Norway
* San Marino
* Scotland
* Spain
* Sweden
* Switzerland
* United Kingdom
* Vatican
* Wales

Edit: Lol I know they have great prices? But perhaps not the brightest bulb in the pack? They have listed Wales, Scotland, England and the United Kingdom.

[Viking]

* Vatican

The Pope must love TW.

[Ludens]

Definately worth getting as that's the platform for 2 great upcoming mods, EB & RTR 7.0 :-)

While R:TR 7.0 is definitely going to be on BI, I think EB 1.0 will be released on 1.5. The team has not yet revealed whether they will do a further port to BI.