Results 1 to 30 of 35

Thread: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    The report was commissioned by the Pentagon itself:

    Army stretched to breaking point, report says

    Wednesday, January 25, 2006 Posted: 1523 GMT (2323 HKT)
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Stretched by frequent troop rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has become a "thin green line" that could snap unless relief comes soon, according to a study for the Pentagon.

    Andrew Krepinevich, a retired Army officer who wrote the report under a Pentagon contract, concluded that the Army cannot sustain the pace of troop deployments to Iraq long enough to break the back of the insurgency. He also suggested that the Pentagon's decision, announced in December, to begin reducing the force in Iraq this year was driven in part by a realization that the Army was overextended.

    As evidence, Krepinevich points to the Army's 2005 recruiting slump -- missing its recruiting goal for the first time since 1999 -- and its decision to offer much bigger enlistment bonuses and other incentives.

    "You really begin to wonder just how much stress and strain there is on the Army, how much longer it can continue," he said in an interview. He added that the Army is still a highly effective fighting force and is implementing a plan that will expand the number of combat brigades available for rotations to Iraq and Afghanistan.

    The 136-page report represents a more sobering picture of the Army's condition than military officials offer in public. While not released publicly, a copy of the report was provided in response to an Associated Press inquiry.

    Illustrating his level of concern about strain on the Army, Krepinevich titled one of his report's chapters, "The Thin Green Line."

    He wrote that the Army is "in a race against time" to adjust to the demands of war "or risk `breaking' the force in the form of a catastrophic decline" in recruitment and re-enlistment.

    Col. Lewis Boone, spokesman for Army Forces Command, which is responsible for providing troops to war commanders, said it would be "a very extreme characterization" to call the Army broken. He said his organization has been able to fulfill every request for troops that it has received from field commanders.

    The Krepinevich assessment is the latest in the debate over whether the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have worn out the Army, how the strains can be eased and whether the U.S. military is too burdened to defeat other threats.

    Rep. John Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat and Vietnam veteran, created a political storm last fall when he called for an early exit from Iraq, arguing that the Army was "broken, worn out" and fueling the insurgency by its mere presence. Administration officials have hotly contested that view.

    George Joulwan, a retired four-star Army general and former NATO commander, agrees the Army is stretched thin.

    "Whether they're broken or not, I think I would say if we don't change the way we're doing business, they're in danger of being fractured and broken, and I would agree with that," Joulwan told CNN last month.

    Krepinevich did not conclude that U.S. forces should quit Iraq now, but said it may be possible to reduce troop levels below 100,000 by the end of the year. There now are about 136,000, Pentagon officials said Tuesday. (U.S. troop levels)

    For an Army of about 500,000 soldiers -- not counting the thousands of National Guard and Reserve soldiers now on active duty -- the commitment of 100,000 or so to Iraq might not seem an excessive burden. But because the war has lasted longer than expected, the Army has had to regularly rotate fresh units in while maintaining its normal training efforts and reorganizing the force from top to bottom.

    Krepinevich's analysis, while consistent with the conclusions of some outside the Bush administration, is in stark contrast with the public statements of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and senior Army officials.

    Army Secretary Francis Harvey, for example, opened a Pentagon news conference last week by denying the Army was in trouble. "Today's Army is the most capable, best-trained, best-equipped and most experienced force our nation has fielded in well over a decade," he said, adding that recruiting has picked up.

    Rumsfeld has argued that the experience of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan has made the Army stronger, not weaker.

    "The Army is probably as strong and capable as it ever has been in the history of this country," he said in an appearance at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies in Washington on December 5. "They are more experienced, more capable, better equipped than ever before."

    Krepinevich said in the interview that he understands why Pentagon officials do not state publicly that they are being forced to reduce troop levels in Iraq because of stress on the Army. "That gives too much encouragement to the enemy," he said, even if a number of signs, such as a recruiting slump, point in that direction.

    Krepinevich is executive director of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a nonprofit policy research institute.

    He said he concluded that even Army leaders are not sure how much longer they can keep up the unusually high pace of combat tours in Iraq before they trigger an institutional crisis. Some major Army divisions are serving their second yearlong tours in Iraq, and some smaller units have served three times.

    Michael O'Hanlon, a military expert at the private Brookings Institution, said in a recent interview that "it's a judgment call" whether the risk of breaking the Army is great enough to warrant expanding its size.

    "I say yes. But it's a judgment call, because so far the Army isn't broken," O'Hanlon said.

    Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/01/25....ap/index.html
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  2. #2
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    New York New York
    Posts
    9,020

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    i saw this a day ago but decided not to post it since some users might think i have an agenda.

  3. #3
    Mad Professor Senior Member Hurin_Rules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Alberta and Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    2,433

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by solypsist
    i saw this a day ago but decided not to post it since some users might think i have an agenda.
    Yes, I thought so as well, and I can probably anticipate some of the criticisms I'll receive, so I will say the following:

    1. The report was commissioned by the Pentagon itself.

    2. Please speak to the message rather than the messenger.

    3. I hate freedom because I'm Canadian.
    "I love this fellow God. He's so deliciously evil." --Stuart Griffin

  4. #4
    Lesbian Rebel Member Mikeus Caesar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ostrayliah
    Posts
    3,590

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    This topic states the obvious more than George 'Most of our imports come from overseas...' Bush.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranika
    I'm being assailed by a mental midget of ironically epic proportions. Quick as frozen molasses, this one. Sharp as a melted marble. It's disturbing. I've had conversations with a braying mule with more coherence.


  5. #5
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    I rather read the information coming from the soldiers themselves to determine if the military is close to a breaking point.

    It gives a little more creditablity then a report that is only shared in an interview.

    Its not a bad thing for the Pentagon to contract for an independent study, simply because it provides the necessary outside input to determine a direction or course of action to take. But I don't think the news article is protraying the complete story on this either.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    Yes, it should be interesting to have the soldiers’ point of view… Unfortunately, we won’t because soldiers have to keep their mouth shut when they are in under the flag, when they are out, they won’t be seen as traitor…
    Anyway, it doesn’t need to be a genius to see that all western armies are overstretched. The all-high technology approach chosen by all the industrial nations ignored the fact that the anti-guerrilla war needs a lot of soldiers. It is true that a platoon nowadays has more fire power than ever but check points, patrols, hearts and minds operations need soldiers.
    The number of theatres is also a problem: Kosovo, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq are the best known, but also a lot of different peace keeping operations, plus the need of internal safety.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  7. #7
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    In ur nun, causing a bloody schism!
    Posts
    7,906

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    I rather read the information coming from the soldiers themselves to determine if the military is close to a breaking point.
    I heard a reporter that came back from Iraq say that there's two kinds of soldiers in the Army, those that are in Iraq and those who want to go. Sure some of them might BS but you'd be hard pressed to find one that doesn't think we're doing the right thing.

    The "breaking point"? How the hell did we ever fight a war in the first place. Two or three deployments?!? I know they suck and I also know we (and presumably the UK) are tougher than that. The article I read stated TWICE that recruitment is down. Maybe it's because of the anti-war ranting that you see in the media. What I didn't read is that reenlistment is strong and that most of the soldiers believe in what they're doing. We're fighting a proxy war against not only terrorists but at LEAST Iran and Syria. Anything who says otherwise is simply misinformed.

    Needless to say I'm very upset that this was released.

    Edit-Soly I don't think anyone would hold it against you if you posted a legitimate, if objectionable, news story like this.
    Last edited by Vladimir; 01-25-2006 at 22:43.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  8. #8
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Trying to get to Utopia
    Posts
    3,482

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    Its not a bad thing for the Pentagon to contract for an independent study, simply because it provides the necessary outside input to determine a direction or course of action to take. .
    If the pentagon pays, the study is not independent. I made studies for our government before
    Quote Originally Posted by Redleg
    But I don't think the news article is protraying the complete story on this either.
    I agree. My opinion is that the pentagon just wants to get more money.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    4,353

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    I hate freedom because I'm Canadian.
    Most definitely going on my list of potential sigs .

  10. #10
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    7,967

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    I think it loses impact (and that robust, wispy aroma...) if taken out of context. Sig the whole thing.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  11. #11
    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Far up in the Magnolia Tree.
    Posts
    3,550

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    The 'hate freedom' joke is very Daily Show '03. Just wait until you get to see last night's episode, in a few years, non-Americans. It was a hoot.

  12. #12
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    in the cloud.
    Posts
    9,007

    Default Re: Pentagon report: stretched US army can't defeat Iraq Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin_Rules
    The report was commissioned by the Pentagon itself:
    That doesnt make it infallible- lots of people have differing views about it. This is one view. I suspect that's why the Pentagon gets these reports- so that they can try to look at a given issue from as many angles as possible. This article itself lists many differing views on the matter.

    Anyone else think this excerpt is funny?
    Krepinevich said in the interview that he understands why Pentagon officials do not state publicly that they are being forced to reduce troop levels in Iraq because of stress on the Army. "That gives too much encouragement to the enemy," he said, even if a number of signs, such as a recruiting slump, point in that direction.
    The guy says the Pentagon wouldn't say this publicly because he thinks it "gives too much encouragement to the enemy", yet he's out giving an interview to the AP on it. I guess he doesnt care about giving too much encouragement to the enemy?

    The timing of articles like this just suggests to me laying ground work on the part of certain media outlets to be able to claim the troop reductions, which have been slated for months, are really an administration response to an "untenable" position in Iraq. Let's see if Im right.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO