How do spearmen vs cavalry bonuses work?

[orangat]

1. How much bonus does spearmen/phalanx get exactly against cav?
2. Do phalanx using secondary weapons still get bonus against cav?
3. According to the readme in patch 1.3, spear bonus are now modable. Where is it?
* Spear bonuses against cavalry have been increased (they were previously hard coded and are now moddable, in addition to mount_effect)
* Braced spearmen (standing ready) now reflect part of any attacking cavalry’s charge bonus back on the horse

Is the bonus coded under stat_sec_attr light_spear, spear_bonus_4?

[x-dANGEr]

1. You can see that through the export_descr_units.
2. Nope.
3. In the text file above.

* Yes!?
* Yes!?

Hmm.. I don't think so, what's their stat_pri their and what's it attributes? (The spear bonus applies even if their are charging, right?)

[Ciaran]

It should be stat_pri, since spears don´t have secondary weapons, only phalanx units do, but the line after that is precisely that. The "spear_bonus_4" means that the unit gets an attack bonus of 4 points when fighting horses. I´m not sure about the differences between "spear" and "light_spear" but I asume it has something to do with the penalty a spear unit gets when fighting infantry.

[Watchman]

I'd hazard a guess the main difference is that light_spears, being shorter and generally wimpier sticks only used by seriously low-end militia types, aren't as good at the "brace for impact" charge-reflection thing.

[orangat]

1. You can see that through the export_descr_units.

No you can't. At least not all of it.

3. In the text file above.

I already know that. I want to know how much and where exactly.

* Yes!?
* Yes!?

Duuh?!

[orangat]

Jerome in the CA Q&A had this to say:

"The spear bonusses are fed into the stats system in a couple of different ways, via the mounts bonusses (which are direct attack modifiers against units mounted on that particular mount type) and via the 'spear' weapon attribute. Units which are marked with spear gain a +4 combat bonus against cavalry and use the cavalry's charge bonus against them, while cavalry get a -4 attack penalty against them."

So what I seem to be getting from this is that there is a hardcoded bonus vs cavalry class units (mount type horse or category cavalry?) for class spearmen.
If the readme from patch 1.3 says that it is moddable then where is this located in export_descr_unit?

And then there is an additional modifier from the weapon attribute which I take must be the spear_bonus_8 or spear_bonus_4 attribute.

[x-dANGEr]

Here is an example:

type             greek hoplite spartan
dictionary       greek_hoplite_spartan      ; Spartan Hoplites
category         infantry
class            spearmen
voice_type       Medium_1
soldier          greek_hoplite_spartan_pylos, 40, 0, 1.3
attributes       sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy
formation        1, 1, 2, 2, 5, square, phalanx
stat_health      2, 0
stat_pri         16, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr    spear, spear_bonus_8
stat_sec         12, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  3, 9, 5, leather
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        2
stat_ground      2, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental      14, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        2, 1190, 460, 120, 180, 1190
ownership        greek_cities

The primary weapon of the Spartan Hoplite has 2 attributes:

1) Spear: Used for long spears. Gives bonuses fighting cavalry, and penalties against infantry
2) Spear_bonus_8: +8 attack VS cav.

So I 'suppose' that a Spartan Hoplite unit gains +8 attack exactly VS a cav in a fighting status. Though, I'm not sure what happens if it's charged by a cav unit from front.

[orangat]

x-dANGEr, I don't think +8 from spear_bonus_8 is the only bonus which is what I've been saying.

According to Jerome's post there is mount bonuses (which I take to mean anything with horse as an attribute) as well which he says is moddable.

From my experiments, a unit of triarii can rout an armored cataphract unit faster than urbans (if javs are not thrown). Triarii has an attack of 7+8 bonus=15. Urban cohort has an attack of 14. Just a +1 difference in attack couldn't have been it could it?

And slight o/t, the weird and stupid butt spike effect happens since spears pointed in the wrong direction can still reflect some of the charge bonus back! Unfortunately this modifier is probably hardcoded.