"The left and its mouth piece the liberal media..."

[Goofball]

I got the title of this thread from the content of one of Gawain's recent posts, and rather than clutter up that thread, I decided to start a new one.

Here's the thing:

I have heard conservative Org members time and time again complain about how the American media are nothing more than a tool of the left, but so far I have never really seen anything to back up that complaint.

Although I am Canadian, I take in a lot of American media product. In the morning while I eat my breakfast and iron my shirt, I typically watch CNN. During the day, I will visit MSNBC online for my mid-day updates. In the evening, I've even been known to get a little crazy and take in a little Fox News.

Quite frankly, I have never seen any evidence of any kind of systemic tendency of the American mainstream media to demonize the right and champion the left. In fact, it appears to me to be quite the opposite.

As a non-American, when I watch your news, the "feel" I get is that all of your major networks tend to be on side with promoting a general theme of American nationalism and flag-waving, which is decidedly more in keeping with right-wing ideology than it is with left.

I think the reason you righties feel so picked on by the media is that you currently run the entire country. The media tend to make it their purpose in life to leave no stone unturned when it comes to digging up dirt on the powerful. Since Republicans are currently in charge of your entire government, it stands to reason that they will be the main targets. But this has nothing to do with right or left. It's simply a question of what sells more papers or attracts more viewers.

Cripes, just look at the field day the media had with Clinton when he was diddling that chubby intern. They certainly pulled no punches when that was going on.

So please, here is your chance conservatives. In this thread, show us all of the examples of the mainstream media being blatantly lef-wing biased.

[Byzantine Prince]

Do you actually expect a serious responce for this?

The "liberal media" is a buzzword or phrase that is often used by the neocon extremists to make it seem like they are oppressed. It's part of their apeal. They are so "smart" and "extreme" for us to understand. Instead they talk about how the uncovering of their corruptions are part of a scheme that the left has devised to destroy them.

[Csargo]

Its all Propaganda my friends Propaganda.

[PanzerJaeger]

Have you ever seen Frontline back in the days of Moyers? How about the life and times of Dan Rather. All the way from "The Guns of August" where he falsified information to push a left wing agenda Memogate where he falsified information to push a left wing agenda.

If not, Bernard Goldberg's first book was a pretty good expose on the MSM. I wouldnt reccomend any of his other books though, he seems to have lost his touch since that one.. he has gotten a lot older though.

You are right in a sense though. From the 70s to the early 90s the news was very heavily biased towards the left, but these days its more of a fair fight..

The vast popularity of FoxNews gave network execs a taste of the strong desire for a little more balance and different opinions in the news, so stations such as MSNBC and others have tried to diversify a bit recently. Of course there are the elitist holdouts from the Watergate era, but they are quickly dying out.

9/11 also had a lot to do with some of the recent purging of the ultra leftists in some forms of the MSM. Nobody has the stomach anymore for the "Blame America First" crowd.

I, and apparently a majority of Americans, like the media to give America the benefit of the doubt. After years of living in the shadow of the Vietnam era, the media seems to have figured that out.. hence the little pins they where everyday.(The one Bill Moyers refused to where. )

[Goofball]

Have you ever seen Frontline back in the days of Moyers? How about the life and times of Dan Rather. All the way from "The Guns of August" where he falsified information to push a left wing agenda Memogate where he falsified information to push a left wing agenda.

IIRC (and I could be wrong) it seemed that Rather wasn't so much falsifying info as he was accepting false info as fact without making any effort to verify it. And while you believe that his motive was to push a left wing agenda, I believe that his motivation was simpler (and much more egotistical) than you give him credit for: Dan Rather wanted to enhance his own reputation and add to the Dan rather personality cult/myth. Nothing more.

The vast popularity of FoxNews gave network execs a taste of the strong desire for a little more balance and different opinions in the news, so stations such as MSNBC and others have tried to diversify a bit recently. Of course there are the elitist holdouts from the Watergate era, but they are quickly dying out.

I'm not trying to take a shot here PJ, but I find it comical that you (and other conservatives) actually buy into the FOX's self-claim of being "balanced." They are extremely right-wing, and take very few pains to hide it. But you know what? I don't think that means they are part of any conspiracy to try to support the right wing agenda.

As with Rather, I think FOX's motives are much more base. I'll tell you why FOX takes a right wing slant: some MBA read the mood of the country correctly and observed that nationalism, hawkishness, and "right-wingishness" in general are what Americans want to see right now. Since that is what people want, that is what FOX (and to some extent, the other networks) gives them. It's simply a question of wanting to produce a product that people will buy, not trying to push a political agenda.

[Tribesman]

The vast popularity of FoxNews gave network execs a taste of the strong desire for a little more balance and different opinions in the news,
Balance ????Fox news
Since when has any of Murdochs many media outlets shown anything even slightly resembling balance ?

[JAG]

It does amaze me, Fox one day suddenly comes up with the phrase 'fair and balanced' - wow what an idea eh? - then puts it all over their screen as they broadcast and suddenly they are not an extremely right wing corporation - just one of the many right wing media outlets owned by Murdoch - but a 'fair' and 'balanced' one.

Yet you still think that it is the right that sees the reality and the right that doesn't buy into media BS?

[Redleg]

If one only watches the Television News programs - one is only reviewing part - and I mean a very small part of the news that is out there.

The broadcast media sells to an audience - so therefor Goofball is correct - they give their audience exactly what they are wanting. Be it the truth or a version of the truth that will ensure that the willing consumer continues to tune in to their channel so that the adds will continue to sell - therefor lining the pockets of everyone involved with cold hard cash.

It is up to the individual to read multiple sources to get to a "balanced" view of events. If one refuses to read and view the multiple sources that are available for any one story - one's viewpoint becomes skewed toward the biased inherent in that source of information.

For the most part I rarely watch television newscasts unless it is for local traffic and weather reports. I rather read multiple sites on the internet with key word searches to get information - and attempt to come to an understanding of what is going on from multiple information sources.

Now my own baised views sometimes interfer with my ability to grasp the truth of what is being report - but you can normally find the problems and opinions express in the news if one does not relay on only one source for information.

Is there a slant in the American Broadcast news - indeed there is - however has Goofball has correctly pointed out - its toward what will insure ratings for the network or news agency. And it periodically shifts between the politicial spectrums that are in the United States. The exact same thing can be said for any for profit news outlet across the globe.

Thomas Jefferson's quote in my Signature applies even more to television news then it did to the newspapers of his day.

[Xiahou]

Balance ????Fox news
Since when has any of Murdochs many media outlets shown anything even slightly resembling balance ?

I think it's funny whenever a conservative mentions Fox, the usual suspects always come out to bash them...

If media leans left, and a right leaning network comes on the scene- then yes, that is "a little more balance". I really don't think he said FoxNews was "fair and balanced"

On topic, for my part, it's tough just to march out all of the news stories that are pushing an agenda- it's not like I mark down every one that I see. But, as I see them, I'll link some of them here. In the meantime Goof, I'd suggest you watch any Whitehouse press briefing if you really want to see the wolves closing in for the kill.

Here's 1 story, to get us started, that's in the headlines that I personally feel is ridiculous.
FEMA accused of Censorship

[Goofball]

On topic, for my part, it's tough just to march out all of the news stories that are pushing an agenda- it's not like I mark down every one that I see. But, as I see them, I'll link some of them here. In the meantime Goof, I'd suggest you watch any Whitehouse press briefing if you really want to see the wolves closing in for the kill.

So is it your position then that if a Democrat was in the Whitehouse the press briefings would be nothing more than love-ins with softball questions aimed at making the President look good?

Do you really think the press are only "closing in for the kill" because it happens to be a Republican in office?

[Tribesman]

I really don't think he said FoxNews was "fair and balanced"
But Fox does , it also has that dickhead who says "No Spin"

[PanzerJaeger]

Well youve got your opinion and Ive got mine Goof.

As long as were trying to get to the bottom of the whole bias issue, can anyone give some quick examples of Fox's bias? Im sure there are plenty of them..

[Goofball]

Well youve got your opinion and Ive got mine Goof.

And we all know that opinions are like arseholes: everybody has one, and everybody thinks everybody else's stinks...

[Aenlic]

Well youve got your opinion and Ive got mine Goof.

As long as were trying to get to the bottom of the whole bias issue, can anyone give some quick examples of Fox's bias? Im sure there are plenty of them..

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1067
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1072
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1070
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1187

http://www.psqonline.org/cgi-bin/99_...ee&format=view

Some interesting facts from the above study done by Political Science Quarterly:

67% of Fox viewers believed that the "U.S. has found clear evidence in Iraq that Saddam Hussein was working closely with the al Qaeda terrorist organization". In the aggregate, 52% of all respondants who got their news primarily from a single news network held this belief.

33% of Fox viewers believed that the "U.S. has found Iraqi weapons of mass destruction" "since the war ended". In the aggregate, 23% of all respondants who got their news primarily from a single news network held this belief.

35% of Fox viewers believed that "the majority of people [in the world] favour the U.S. having gone to war" with Iraq. In the aggregate, 23% of all respondants who got their news primarily from a single news network held this belief.

Odd that a "fair and balanced" network with unbiased news coverage should have that effect on viewers, isn't it?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

A study by the Project for Excellence in Journalism found, among other things, that in covering the Iraq War in 2004, 73% of Fox News stories included editorial opinions, compared to 29% on MSNBC and 2% on CNN. The same report found Fox less likely than CNN to present multiple points of view.


And so on...

[Devastatin Dave]

Let me see if I can explain this plain enough for our idiot neighbors north of the US to understand. The Majority of Americans get their news, not from cable (FOX,CNN, or MSNBC), but from ABC, NBC, and ABC. And if you believe that the big three do not have a left leaning element to it, then the New York Times is a newspaper that only prints the facts and gives Bush a pass on everything.

[Aenlic]

That's odd. When you consider that Roger Ailes, who one might consider one of the guiding "minds" behind Fox News, used to work for NBC. Was he a liberal when he worked for NBC? The act of Murdoch hiring him to work for Fox suddenly converted him, like a bolt of lightning from the sky, into a conservative? He had some kind of epiphany during a conference call with Murdoch? Please explain. Enlighten us.

[Devastatin Dave]

Really? I get my news from CNN, and so does everyone I know.

No, the majority of Americans still get their news from the big three.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Really? I get my news from CNN, and so does everyone I know.

Well then you and your friends must be the only ones watching it as its ratings cant even compete with radio. Anyway CNN is the clinton news network. Its as biased and therfore the low ratings amd credibilitystream media.

67% of Fox viewers believed that the "U.S. has found clear evidence in Iraq that Saddam Hussein was working closely with the al Qaeda terrorist organization". In the aggregate, 52% of all respondants who got their news primarily from a single news network held this belief.

I still believe he was working with AQ. Not because of FOX but because of numerous articles on the topic.

33% of Fox viewers believed that the "U.S. has found Iraqi weapons of mass destruction" "since the war ended". In the aggregate, 23% of all respondants who got their news primarily from a single news network held this belief.

Well they did.

By the way this report has been debunked numerous times.

So is it your position then that if a Democrat was in the Whitehouse the press briefings would be nothing more than love-ins with softball questions aimed at making the President look good?

Do you really think the press are only "closing in for the kill" because it happens to be a Republican in office?

It may not be his but it sure is mine. The mainstream press was on Clontons side during the Monica affair just like the rest of you lefties. They made no bnes about his war in Kosovo. Even today the fact that billions of dollars went to NO and LA during his administration that were supposed to be used to improve the levees went elswhere is unmentioned. Can you imagine if Bush got caught getting a hummer in the Whitehouse what the press would do to him?

Uver the last few months theve tried to make Bush lppk bad from Cindy Sheehan to this debacle in NO and yet the American people now reject what they have to say most of the time idf the polls are to be believed. They no longer have a monopoly on the news. The truth will prevail and they dont have it.

[Devastatin Dave]

The press also gave Clinton a pass on the first world trade center bombings, the Oklahoma City bombings, the embassy bombings, the Cole bombing, Ruby Ridge, Waco, not to mention now we have to explain to grade school kids about blow jobs. What a legacy. All the press does is carry the water for the Democratic party. Most papers endorsed Kerry in 04 and Gore in 2000. But liberals will never understand this because they only believe in freedom of the press if its pushing their agenda, freedom of speech when its voicing their agenda, and tolerance only if its perversed and detrimental to a moral society. Thank God the left will continue to be their own worst enemy...
Man it feels good to take the gloves off once again. Up yours' hippies!!!

[Aenlic]

No, the majority of Americans still get their news from the big three.

Not that I would pit your statement against a Christian web site; but just so I won't be accused of being unfair and unbalanced:

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/6/112001c.asp

According to this Christian web site in a 2001 article, a Pew Center report showed that as far back as 2001, only 30% of people in the U.S. got their news from the "big three" networks' news. That isn't quite "the majority of Americans" is it? Hmmm, perhaps the numbers have gone up since 2001 for network news viewership! Possible? Maybe. Likely? Not really.

[Xiahou]

I still believe he was working with AQ. Not because of FOX but because of numerous articles on the topic.

Even the 9/11 Commission said that much.

I honestly don't have a very clear memory of the White House press corps during the Clinton era- so I couldn't say whether they fawned on him or not. I am pretty sure they were much more respectful and much less argumentative though.

[Aenlic]

By the way this report has been debunked numerous times.

Debunked by Fox News? Debunked by Rush Limbaugh? Would that be on oxycontin or in withdrawal from oxycontin? Debunked by whom, exactly?

[Goofball]

Let me see if I can explain this plain enough for our idiot neighbors north of the US to understand. The Majority of Americans get their news, not from cable (FOX,CNN, or MSNBC), but from ABC, NBC, and ABC. And if you believe that the big three do not have a left leaning element to it, then the New York Times is a newspaper that only prints the facts and gives Bush a pass on everything.

Disregarding the "idiot neighbors to the north" comment for the moment, are you going to provide your evidence that the media are baised to the left, or can we expect nothing of more credibility than your opinion on the matter?

Anyway CNN is the clinton news network. Its as biased and therfore the low ratings amd credibilitystream media.

Again, do we have to rely on your assertion for this, or can you actually back up your opinion with evidence &/or examples?

[Reverend Joe]

Gawain, I could say some very unpleasant things right now. Not wanting to get a warning from the mods, however, I will simply say this: it is the closemindedness in the American culture that will be our downfall. That goes for the Democrats, Republicans, and all the other Righties out there. (Yes, I am calling the Democrats righties, because they are to the right of my political spectrum. Just as you Righties are saying that the news, when it was not balanced on your political spectrum, was left-oriented.)

[Red Harvest]

A great deal of FOX coverage is what most of us would consider "Talk Radio" format, with a far right tilt. Their news reports are filled with editorial comments. Sometimes it reminds me of watching chickens trying to pick a few kernels out of big stinking piles of manure. (I remember writing a paper lamenting editorial comments on newscasts when I was in 8th grade...something like 25 years ago. At that time they were few and far between by comparison.)

Yes, it is a Rupert Murdoch company, which makes it hilarious to claim they are "fair and balanced."

FOX did an excellent job picking up on the rightward shift in U.S. politics and they cater to it nearly exclusively. Never doubt the masses desire to delude themselves with entertainment masquerading as news. FOX "news" is more about creating an alternate reality, than reporting the existing one. In the first few days Shep was in New Orleans he was trying to tell people who were staying in residences to go to the Superdome...and couldn't understand why they weren't going. It was obvious to me that they were far better off staying wherever they had water and shelter of their own. Later on Shep understood, and began asking where was all the promised help. Now FOX has to try to reprogram him again...

[Devastatin Dave]

Disregarding the "idiot neighbors to the north" comment for the moment, are you going to provide your evidence that the media are baised to the left, or can we expect nothing of more credibility than your opinion on the matter?



Again, do we have to rely on your assertion for this, or can you actually back up your opinion with evidence &/or examples?

Just as much credibility as any of your assinine opinions here over the past few years. Besides I thought you and the other libs in here were pissing and moaning about to maky posted articles? You don't ever consider your wrong so why should I have to go into some long drawn out explaination when all your going to do is ignore it or redicule it. So go google "media bias" and read yourself. And I'll continue to post whatever the #### I want like you do all the time, hypocrite...

[AntiochusIII]

Well, meatwad, I myself is currently disgusted by some of the things going on (that better be left unsaid to avoid pointless bickerings and warning points) and is trying to refrain from arguing (or flaming) with anyone about things around Katrina for sometime now, with quite some success, apart from a few remarks. I suggest you do the same as well.

Regards.

Angry remarks does not enlighten the minds of those who are in the dark.

[Reverend Joe]

Antiochus, you have a point. But sometimes I just have to vent.

[Redleg]

LOL - what a side show this is turning into.

Here is a bit of an update to my favorite Thomas Jefferson quote.

The man who neither views nor listens to the broadcast news networks is better informed of events then the man who only watches broadcast news networks.

[Aenlic]

I've found the Christian Science Monitor, oddly enough, to be the most unbiased source, both online and in print. It tends to just present the facts without too much editorializing. It isn't perfect; but it's less filled with the slant of the day than the typical so-called "liberal" or "fair and balanced" media.