Iraq election results announced

[Redleg]

Here is a report on the election results.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...497A4DC086.htm

[Ser Clegane]

Thanks for posting this.

Funny - I after all the discussions about the elections as a process, news about the actual results have been rather scarce ... go figure.

Godd to see that the results reflect a broader population base - although I would see it rather positively that no single party gained the majority and that there is a need for coaöitions now.

[LeftEyeNine]

Muppet show.

[Redleg]

Thanks for posting this.

Funny - I after all the discussions about the elections as a process, news about the actual results have been rather scarce ... go figure.

Godd to see that the results reflect a broader population base - although I would see it rather positively that no single party gained the majority and that there is a need for coaöitions now.

Positve news out of Iraq does not sell papers.

[Tribesman]

Muppet show.
What do you mean , the Org or the Iraqi government ?

Positive news at least . Now lets see if they can cobble together a coilition government of national unity , which is vital to get anything done due to the really smart idea of putting in veto rights along ethnic/religeous lines .

Left Eye . By muppet show , or no show in this case , do you mean things like the government getting frustrated at so many members who had never attended any gatherings of the government that finally in desperation they decide to vote on expelling those absent members . Only for the whole thing to flop because they couldn't get anyone to attend and have a vote on it .
But hey this time it will be soooo different .

[LeftEyeNine]

If something is attempted to be done, it should be done at a satisfactory level.

Whole new Iraqi stuff is a muppet show : "Aww, look how democratic they are."

It's a muppet show to me. I hope I fail with my ideas and it turns out to be some kind of "at least a good point to start" just like it was stated by other patrons in the previous thread regarding the Iraqi elections.

[Devastatin Dave]

It is good news, well atleast to some that would like to see Iraq peaceful and run by the people. Must be bad news for those that like watching car bombs and terrorists, oh excuse me, "freedom fighters".

[Adrian II]

Positive news at least.

I doubt that, maybe this causes only more headaches. The sectarian parties gained. As of now, Moqtada al-Sadr for instance has not only a personal militia, but also a personal political party in parliament, the United Iraqi Alliance. The secular parties suffered. Allawi's party fell from 40 to 25 seats. A solid, 'eternal' Shiite/Peshmarga coalition -- which is generally regarded by outsiders as the Iraqi nightmare scenario -- seems more likely than before.

[LeftEyeNine]

It is good news, well atleast to some that would like to see Iraq peaceful and run by the people. Must be bad news for those that like watching car bombs and terrorists, oh excuse me, "freedom fighters".

Stop labeling me. And remember about the third color that can paint more than black and white like your point of view sees it : Grey.. I don't have to be "this" if I don't like "that". And that "freedom fighters" is a long time diplomacy concept, don't you know? We had terrorists called "freedom fighters" abroad (though not completely overcome), so stop bitchin' about FF stuff at me.

[Devastatin Dave]

Stop labeling me. And remember about the third color that can paint more than black and white like your point of view sees it : Grey.. I don't have to be "this" if I don't like "that". And that "freedom fighters" is a long time diplomacy concept, don't you know? We had terrorists called "freedom fighters" abroad (though not completely overcome), so stop bitchin' about FF stuff at me.

Did I even write your name in my post. The world doesn't revolve around you Mrs Drama Queen, so chill out.

[LeftEyeNine]

Did I even write your name in my post. The world doesn't revolve around you Mrs Drama Queen, so chill out.

So within your next post, start making more clear statements that can prevent the world turn around me, Mrs Black & White.

[Xiahou]

I doubt that, maybe this causes only more headaches. The sectarian parties gained. As of now, Moqtada al-Sadr for instance has not only a personal militia, but also a personal political party in parliament, the United Iraqi Alliance. The secular parties suffered. Allawi's party fell from 40 to 25 seats. A solid, 'eternal' Shiite/Peshmarga coalition -- which is generally regarded by outsiders as the Iraqi nightmare scenario -- seems more likely than before.

The primary shiite party also lost seats in the election... but let's not talk about that.

There are people who will find nothing but bad news in anything. I knew as soon as Redleg posted this, that it wouldnt take long for the usual suspects to start poo-pooing it.

[Tribesman]

I doubt that, maybe this causes only more headaches.
headaches in Iraq , no never .
What I meant by positive is that the electoral commision didn't decide to re-run the election in the 50 seats where there were serious allegations of fraud , that would put any process back by months .

A solid, 'eternal' Shiite/Peshmarga coalition -- which is generally regarded by outsiders as the Iraqi nightmare scenario -- seems more likely than before.
Well we can always hope for a coilition of national unity , though that coilition you mention is more interested in splitting the country than uniting it .

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That's the core issue.

Will the governing coalition (a fairly likely result in a parliamentary-style system with that many political factions) govern within the framework of the constitution -- empowering it and institutionalizing it in practice -- or will the governing coalition use their new leverage to persecute political opponents and re-draw that constitution to institutionalize their hold on power at the expense of other factions (and almoist certainly undermine the popular belief in a constitutional system in its nascent stages).

The USA faced this as well in 1789-1804, but did come to believe in itself. I hope Iraq will as well. I suspect AdrianII expects the latter outcome -- and his concern is not unjustified.

[Tribesman]

There you have hit on one of the major problems Seamus , the main points of the constitution have yet to be drafted .
The last gathering of all the different factions (though there are some new ones this time just to make things easier) couldn't agree on the core issues .
As some of the factions are complete opposites how can they find a middle ground to agree upon ?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

It's never easy -- few things of value are.


The USA's struggle to go from a loose confederation to a constitutional state was frought with difficulty as well.

Our Constitution was only ratified by most of the original 13 states upon the proviso that a series of ammendments protecting individual rights would be among Congress' first items of business.

Peaceful transitions of executive power were accomplished despite political rancor. Washington chose to leave office and to thereby establish an implicit term limit to the executive and Adams relinquished power gracefully after one of the most bitter campaigns in history (worse than the moderns as you may know).

Our chief Federalist was gunned down in a duel by a major political figure of the day.

Our Supreme Court had no distinct purview until it defined one for itself.



In short, I freely acknowledge that Iraq's democratic rebirth is far from complete and any number of obstacles remain. If they persevere, however, the potential is limitless. Seeing all those so proud to have voted, I am inclined -- faintly -- towards optimism that they will rise to the challenges ahead.

[spmetla]

Well I just hope for more good news. Right now Iraq is such a wildcard situation that no one could predict what will happen. When I was there I did see lots of the stained fingers showing that people had voted which was postitive although the month after my former AO had an increase in attacks.

[LeftEyeNine]

The distinction of the social components of Iraq following the formation of "federation" must not be hard to predict what will happen from now on in Iraq.

[Vladimir]

It seems the Brits successfully established a monarchy there after WW I. I hope this is the next step after the Saddam "incident". I didn't think you'd be so negative Left Eye, I thought success to the south would be a good thing. Maybe you're upset about the Kurds?

[LeftEyeNine]

It seems the Brits successfully established a monarchy there after WW I. I hope this is the next step after the Saddam "incident". I didn't think you'd be so negative Left Eye, I thought success to the south would be a good thing. Maybe you're upset about the Kurds?

Sort of.. The N. Iraq is in hands of the Kurds that would like to hold PKK card in hands forever. Israeli army is told to be training Kurds, that's not pleasant as you see.

The land will never be in peace - Sunnis, Shiites, Turkmens and Kurds are all over another. It was not a rose garden before but it sure will go worse over there. Such competence over the governing of the country by calling representation and federation should not have been created in Iraq. So how would Saddam's despotism would end ? That's another topic. But since it is about the post-elections situation in Iraq, I'm not hopeful at all, briefly.

[Leet Eriksson]

too much sunni demonising in the media caused it.

When it really wasn't the sunnis, but the baathists, who were far more secular mind you.

Lets hope the UIA keeps this country from falling apart.

[Tribesman]

It seems the Brits successfully established a monarchy there after WW I.
Did they ? they took the place over , then installed a monarch that they had already promised to install in Syria not Iraq , then they fudged the border issues with Turkey (with help from the league of nations)which led to another conflict with other locals on top of the one they already had over their presence and the monarchy they were installing .
So they bombed the hell out of the locals for over 11 years and gassed them on occasion , then declared Iraq could be independant . Which was followed by a series of uprisings ,coups and countercoups , British deployments and withdrawels then more deployments until they finally left and watched the ever changing situation from a safe distance (until now that is) .
Thats really some success there Vladimir

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Can't have been too bad; haven't heard a peep from the media. Though I haven't been looking much.