Hamas Victory in Palestine?!

[Idaho]

Whoa... not quite sure what will play out here.

I think it was probably good that Fatah were given the boot. They were too corrupt and had failed after too long.

I'm all in favour of militant groups bringing fresh impetus and then being moderated by power. If allowed to run it's course it usually ends well.

[BDC]

Hopefully. It's a bit hard to continue the military aspect when you're expected to take responsibility.

I too heard Fatah went because of corruption. So another good aspect potentially there.

[Kommodus]

Interesting. I recall that the Palestinian Authority was originally the PLO, itself a terrorist organization. Optimistically speaking, Hamas may change in a similar fashion. However...

The realist in me suspects that this is nothing short of a catastrophe. Hamas has yet to show any inclination that it intends to pursue peace with Isreal, or even accept the very existance of Isreal. This situation is likely to lead to another escalation of violence which will last for another several decades at least.

Even when the PLO "went legit" and became the PA, violence remained prevalent for a long time, as the PA was unable/unwilling to reign in militant Palestinian groups. We may simply see a repeat of that debacle. Worst-case scenario: Hamas uses its new-found power to actively mobilize more and more Palestinians into its armed campaigns in its continuing efforts to "destroy Isreal"; Isreal responds with brutal force, re-occupying land ceded to the Palestinians and destroying fragile Palestinian government infrastructure. The region is returned to full-scale guerilla war and the peace process is set back by decades, resulting in thousands of deaths on both sides, increased oppression of the Palestinians, and a lasting legacy of hatred and fear.

Oh yes, it's a very happy day for the Palestinians...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Oh great now the terrorists are in charge. This looks really bad to me. Doesnt show much sense on the part of the Palestinians.

[Watchman]

Yes, thank you for your deep and insightful analysis.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Yes, thank you for your deep and insightful analysis.

Whats to analize? Its pretty obvious. Is Hamas a terrorist organization or not? Do they want peace with Isreal or Israel one piece at a time?

[Just A Girl]

Oh great now the terrorists are in charge.

Why dosent any 1 call them rebels any more?

The only reason there not out there rebelling like they did in medieval time using pich forks and stuff is becous, a pitch for dosent help much agains a F16 fighter pilot.

Any way, Americans are terrorists in there own right.
they demand people adheer to western rules. by force of terror.

And i really dont know why people stick there noses in to other countrys buisness.

personaly I think western rules are messed up.

its a system based on the principal that every 1's a money grabbing, self serving, self oppinionated, self obsessed, obese white male, aged 25-48

If i were you id just let them get on with it.
and stop thinking that america should go make things right.
Cos honestly..
as far as countrys go.
They dont come much worse than america (north)

So just leave em to it
"Que Sera, Sera"

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It's of rather greater importance who was where last, and in that departement the Arabs win hands down

No the Jews still do as they own it now and have for over 50 years. Again is there a time limit or not. The Jews owned it first and they own it now. That pretty much settles it in my mind. Besides the Palestinains nation never existed. So how could it have been theirs. The same for every other occupier before Israel. They were not a nation as such but just a bunch of tribes. You know like Bedouins.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

So we have another terrorist state. Good job Israel, you are officially ******

/edited for language

[Viking]

I think it was probably good that Fatah were given the boot. They were too corrupt and had failed after too long.

You believe that a terrorist organisation will have less corruption? I don`t think so..


The true solution to the middle east conflict is to evacuate the Israelian state, and whoila: problem solved.
The stupidest move of the UN ever, was to establish the Israelian state.

[doc_bean]

The true solution to the middle east conflict is to evacuate the Israelian state, and whoila: problem solved.
The stupidest move of the UN ever, was to establish the Israelian state.

I'm afraid that's almost purely the fault of the US...

About Hamas: this might be a good thing, they might try a peaceful approach and when they fail, another, now smaller terrorist group will rise again and call them sell outs. In the long run it won't matter much, but it might give a little peace in the short run, and who knows, save a few lives.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

that's right, the Jews are the problem...

...removing them all from Israel (including the indigenous Jewish community) would fix it.

[doc_bean]

that's right, the Jews are the problem...

...removing them all from Israel (including the indigenous Jewish community) would fix it.

Well removing all the Arabs would work to, what's your point ? If two parties are fighting, pulling them apart is the easiest way to end the fight.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Well removing all the Arabs would work to, what's your point ? If two parties are fighting, pulling them apart is the easiest way to end the fight.

My point is that nobody's suggesting that all Arabs be removed to fix the problem.

[Slyspy]

Turning back the clock and removing the nation state of Israel is not an option. It will be interesting to see how Hamas will run things. Although labelled a terrorist organisation they have been the prime source of social support and local authority in Palestinian settlements, especially since the PA has either been, or has been reduced to being, ineffectual in so many ways under Fatah.

It is possible to work with the political elements of terrorist organisations. Just look at Northern Ireland. The closest it has ever been to peace since Sinn Fein were included in the political makeup of the province. Of course even in NI this has not worked perfectly and in Palestine, as in NI being viewed as a legitimate political force goes hand in hand with disarming the militants. This is the true test of Hamas' character and power.

[Adrian II]

The stupidest move of the UN ever, was to establish the Israelian state.

I'm afraid that's almost purely the fault of the US...

Almost purely the fault of the U.S. -- who gave you that idea?

Originally Joseph Stalin was the staunchest supporter of an Israeli state-to-be, which he counted on as a future ally because of its Socialist character, whereas as the U.S. and Great Britain were much more involved on the side of Arab nationalism as a counter-weight against Communism.

Later on, from the 1950's to the war of 1967, the French played an important role in securing the strategic independence and security of Israel. As a main supporter of Israel the U.S. only entered the picture in the 1970's.

[Watchman]

Wasn't Churchill a major figure in getting it going ? I think that was between the Wars, tho'.

[Redleg]

Almost purely the fault of the U.S. -- who gave you that idea?

Originally Joseph Stalin was the staunchest supporter of an Israeli state-to-be, which he counted on as a future ally because of its Socialist character, whereas as the U.S. and Great Britain were much more involved on the side of Arab nationalism as a counter-weight against Communism.

Later on, from the 1950's to the war of 1967, the French played an important role in securing the strategic independence and security of Israel. As a main supporter of Israel the U.S. only entered the picture in the 1970's.

From the Truman Library

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistle...raelchrono.htm

September 17: Secretary of State George Marshall, in an address to the United Nations, indicates that the United States is reluctant to endorse the partition of Palestine.

From Wikipedia

Creation of the plan
The United Nations, the successor to the League of Nations, attempted to solve the dispute between the Jews and Arabs in Palestine. On May 15, 1947 the UN appointed a committee, the UNSCOP, composed of representatives from eleven states. To make the committee more neutral, none of the Great Powers were represented. After spending three months conducting hearings and general survey of the situation in Palestine, UNSCOP officially released its report on August 31. A majority of nations (Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, Netherlands, Peru, Sweden, Uruguay) recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish states, with Jerusalem to be placed under international administration. A minority (India, Iran, Yugoslavia) supported the creation of a single federal state containing both Jewish and Arab constituent states. Australia abstained.

On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal.

The 33 countries that voted in favor of UN Resolution 181: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Belarus, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukraine South Africa, USSR, USA, Uruguay, Venezuela.

The 13 countries that voted against UN Resolution 181: Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.

The ten countries that abstained: Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.

One state was absent: Thailand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

But what the hell Adrian its easier to believe that its the fault of the United States then to actually read the history of events.

[Watchman]

Ain't it grand being popular ?

[Adrian II]

But what the hell Adrian its easier to believe that its the fault of the United States then to actually read the history of events.

I guess people confuse the historic role of the U.S. with its present position with regard to Israel.

[Proletariat]

I'm all in favour of militant groups bringing fresh impetus and then being moderated by power. If allowed to run it's course it usually ends well.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...r/dictator.htm