Jihads

[Martok]

I really wish CA would confirm that Jihads will be in Medieval 2. I realize they probably will be, but it would be nice to know for sure. Crusades and Jihads are both great fun, and I don't want the Muslim factions deprived of something that adds so much enjoyment to the game. (And you can bet I'll be playing as the Egyptians and Timurids quite a bit!)

Assuming that they will be in Medieval 2, I do have one other small request: Please program them so that they can be used offensively like the Crusades! To me, the single biggest flaw with them from the original MTW was that you could only use Jihads to take back provinces that you'd *lost*. I realize CA probably programmed them this way to avoid depicting Muslims in a negative light--and kudos to them for wanting to do so--but this quite simply is historically inaccurate.

Jihad--at least in the context of "Holy War" (which itself is an oversimplification of the word)--referred to both defending the lands of Islam and conquering new territory and/or attacking an enemy. (Probably the best-known example of Jihad in the context of an offensive military campaign is the Ottamans' conquest of Constantinople.) I wouldn't mind if we were limited to just one Jihad at a time, so long as we could use them to attack provinces just like Crusades can.

[NodachiSam]

That would indeed be more historical.

[SirGrotius]

Sadly, I think it's a lost cause.

[Weebeast]

What I notice in MTW 1 is that AI's seem to launch holy mission to the richest province of a faction. I'd love to see them launch crusades/ jihad to nearest provinces first. It makes sense that way. It's just kinda weird that Catholics often launch one to Algeria or Morocco instead of Valencia or Cordoba.

I wouldn't mind having Jihads being 'active.' If AI's launch jihad to nearest provinces first then there should be no problem...because somehow the Aragonese and Castilians 'endanger' the growth of Islam in Iberia.

[Martok]

Sadly, I think it's a lost cause.

I'm not sure what motivated you to say that, but in any case I hope you're wrong (no offense!). I posted this over at .COM too, so hopefully someone from CA will see it.

[Martok mentally crosses fingers]

[x-dANGEr]

Well, in Islam it's not really like what you're saying.

Jihad to conquer enemies' terroteries is a called 'Fard Kefayeh'. That means if a group of people did it, they will cover up for all others. While Jihad to regain a lost Islamic land is called 'Fard A'ayn'. That means that every muslims, child, woman, man or an old man is entitles to go fight to regain that land. Which is the thing that practically shows the strength of Islam, if followed.

[ajaxfetish]

Offensive Jihads would be nice, though they'd need some other restrictions to keep them balanced with the crusades, which had a lot of limitations (one at a time, only non-Catholic or excommunicated targets, Papal permission, etc.). Of course it sounds like they're introducing a whole new crusade system, so who knows how it'll all work in this one.

Anyway, they'd better incorporate jihads in some way at least. I'd also like to see something (though I can't think what) similar to the crusade/jihad system for Orthodox or Pagan factions, just to spice them up. I wish I had the creativity to make a more specific suggestion, but I'm at a loss there. There just seems like there's a hole or niche there that could stand to be filled.

Ajax

[Slaists]

I wonder if Jihads will be correctly modeled in the new MTW. In the old MTW version, a Jihad could be declared by an Islamic leader only for a piece of land they used to own. In history, however, Jihad was mostly known as an expansionist holy war for spreading Islam to non-believer lands (the 'lands of war'). The last of these Islamic "crusades" were carried out relatively recently: in Southern Sahara in Africa by the beginning of the XX'th century before the French stopped it...

[Moderator note: threads merged.]

[x-dANGEr]

As I clarified about that above. To spread Islam into 'non-believers-lands' is not obligated. To regain an Islamic land that was conquered is obligated.