USA-Mexico Wall Pre-pawned

[Beirut]

Well, the problem is primarily that Canadians don't really have a distinct culture aside from Quebec, which is kind of like an angry mini-me of France. Canadians are basically just Americans, but colder and in denial. I mean, what country in the world is as similar to U.S. culture as Canada? You guys are like our wimpy twin. Don't get me wrong, I like Canada. But you should just accept that your illusory independance is at an end. You are already pretty much our protectorate if you think about it. Which is cool with me. I like maple syrup. And Molson ain't half bad. And remember the "Call of the Wild"? That was a good book about dogs.

Speaking of illusions...

[BDC]

Can I just ask something here?

Is the issue in the south that people come, and effectively get all the benefits of being a US Citizen without the responsibilities?

Surely just enforcing the law would do fine, none of this building walls rubbish. Put all the wall-making money into hiring more police and deporting anyone who has got in illegally.

Of course you need this labour. So anyone who comes in legally gets the benefits that you'd expect as a US citizen. But it all rests on actual enforcement.

[ajaxfetish]

Most of the illegals I knew when I lived in southern California were actively trying to get citizenship. I haven't studied the immigration process, but the anecdotal evidence I heard says it's not as easy to immigrate legally as we sometimes make it sound.

Ajax

[Redleg]

Can I just ask something here?

Sure

Is the issue in the south that people come, and effectively get all the benefits of being a US Citizen without the responsibilities?

Illegal immigrants do not get the benefits of being a citizen unless, and this is key, they have what is termed the anchor baby. Any child regardless of the immigrantion status of thier parents, born on United States soil is entitled to citizenship.

Once an illegal has a child that is a citizen - that child is entitled to all the benefits of being a citizen. Since the illegal parents now must take care of a legal citizen of the nation, they are not deported.

Now you can figure out the rest of the situation. Its bad in some parts of the nation where the illegal immirgant parents no longer work, but there are a lot of illegal immigrants that work under false social security numbers - they in essence also pay their part of the taxes and social security, but its not recorded, because they are illegal immigrants and do not file income taxe returns.

Surely just enforcing the law would do fine, none of this building walls rubbish. Put all the wall-making money into hiring more police and deporting anyone who has got in illegally.

Many state police will not ask immigrantion status. Several lobby groups have effectively put the scare of civil lawsuits on officer, departments, cities, and yes even states about police can not ask about immigrantion status.

So the current most effective means is the border patrol which has that primary responsiblity. All this talk of walls and fences as far as I am concerned - having lived in New Mexico and Texas - the border is too long, through to rough of terrian to adequately police the border to prevent crossings at all the places it is possible. A fence is not effective if it is not patroled and overwatched along its entir length.

All they can effectively do in my opinion is track the most logical and most used crossing areas. Fences in these locations might have some effect in keeping the situation under some control - however by doing so - it will shift the migrantion routes into possible more dangerous terrian. There is a large southwestern desert between much of Mexico and the United States.

Of course you need this labour. So anyone who comes in legally gets the benefits that you'd expect as a US citizen. But it all rests on actual enforcement.

Hince the problem - with as big of a pourous border that the United States has - both along the land borders and the coastal borders. It really is not that hard to get into the United States illegally. Some ways just cost more in cash then others.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Surely just enforcing the law would do fine, none of this building walls rubbish. Put all the wall-making money into hiring more police and deporting anyone who has got in illegally.

The problem is that, besides the huge border, when Border agents catch people crossing they will, in a lot of cases, just let them into the USA with a promise to appear at court on a certain date-which most never do.

The system needs to be fixed. We need to deport people we cathc, not let them in, and be on the lookout for those in the USA. A wall would help-but it still needs to be patrolled.

Crazed Rabbit

[Ironside]

You're not missing anything.

It's bad enough to have American citizens ride the welfare gravy train all their life, all the while not paying taxes on their income because they don't have income. I hate it, a lot. But a lot of people need the help, their need is legitimate, so we take the good with the bad, because they are our fellow countrymen.

And all the elderly are entitled to SS, even if they never paid into it by not working, or being a stay at home parent etc.

Then along comes some folk who arent paying taxes, don't speak the same language and can't even bother with gaining citizenship, sucking on the proverbial tit having not contributed a dime to it. The least they could do is gain citizenship and pay some damn taxes, because when the welfare and social security starts to run dry we're gonna have to pay more taxes to keep our poor and our old from freezing to death, and a little help from the illegal freeloaders would be nice.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask for people to just do it legally, join the team and do their part. And if they aren't willing then maybe some tough love will emphasize the point.

I'm agreeing with you, SS or other social services cannot work properly with people leeching on the system.
I was just surpriced with your high taxes, although the VAT here is a big cash-cow for the state (bigger than the income taxes IIRC). We do pay for a little bit more stuff here in Sweden you know.

[Xiahou]

The problem is that, besides the huge border, when Border agents catch people crossing they will, in a lot of cases, just let them into the USA with a promise to appear at court on a certain date-which most never do.

The system needs to be fixed. We need to deport people we cathc, not let them in, and be on the lookout for those in the USA. A wall would help-but it still needs to be patrolled.

Crazed Rabbit

The 'catch and release' program definitely needs to stop and local law enforcement should stop selectively enforcing laws when it comes to illegal immigration.

As to the wall, I dont think a single wall running the length of the border would be the way to go- even if it was feasible. I'd rather see walls in strategic crossings, coupled with increased border patrols. I also think UAVs would be an excellent way to patrol the borders and cut down on man power demands for the border patrol.

[AntiochusIII]

Most of the illegals I knew when I lived in southern California were actively trying to get citizenship. I haven't studied the immigration process, but the anecdotal evidence I heard says it's not as easy to immigrate legally as we sometimes make it sound.

Ajax

Personal experience says it is not easy to immigrate legally from some places far away, even if your country is stable and rather pro-Western, because of all the quotas and "competitions" to get into America.

For me, it took almost a decade since my father applied when I was five before we were granted the "Green Card." And the country I moved from, Thailand, was by all means rather favored compare to most others. Countries like India and China have stories of people waiting practically forever to immigrate to the United States.

However, that is not an issue -- after all, it is perfectly in America's right to decide who gets in and who's not -- though the illegal immigration is an issue here in the Southwest; crime, poverty, education, burden to the state, and all that. LA has it worst, while Vegas here doesn't have that much problem. We're the fastest-growing city around the block and all immigrants are welcomed to feed a rapidly expanding tourist economy...for now.

This makes me think of the latest Boondocks episode: "You're fired...not the illegal Mexicans."

[Papewaio]

I typically pay @30% of my gross income to total taxes, not including sales taxes and taxes on accounts/stocks. I also try to overpay as much as possible so I always get a fat refund, but when I sit down each february and figure it all out, I always come back to the 30% figure. Speaking of taxes.....

I pay about 33% and 5% of that will disappear when I pay off my University contribution. Mind you my overtime hits about 47% but that all goes straight into savings.

====

As for the anchor babies, make it that they have to have at least one legal responsible adult citizen to gain automatic citzenship.

If not make that one of the parents has to do government work... rubbish collection, teaching spanish, join the military. Have them go to citzenship classes...

[Major Robert Dump]

There is also a factor of fear, and one of criminal records.

Back somewhere in the thread someone posted that all the illegals he knew were trying to get citizenship, whereas all the illegals I KNOW are not.

I frequently worked with many immigrants here on work visas, they had no plans of staying in the states and they payed much fewer taxes despite still being eligible for medicaid and food stamps. While I don't care too much for that, at least they got visas. In fact I dated a few of them (females!) and would quite frequently visit thier homes, in which many other immigrants lived as well.

Usually they were big homes and apartments, not the stereotypical 20 ppl in a 1 bedroom apartment, although that happens as well. But from these visits I learned a few things:

-the older immigrants are altogether unwilling to learn English
-many of the illegals otherwise eligible for citizenship don't want to make the effort because a husband/wife/child has a criminal record that would prevent said person from legally residing in the country, and they dont want to split up the family or risk being noticed
-a lot of them truly do not want to stay here and were her to make money, although this didnt prevent them from having babies and getting free aid

Can't speak for immigrants, my experiences are just that, and most of the latinos I have been around have been non-mexicans, primarily Peruvian, Columbian and Bolivian.

And one other business i forgot to mention that WANTS migrant workers is the phone card and cell phone industry, as consumers of course.