Includes America and Azteks? Huh?

[sapi]

Except that I don't want anyone *else* to be able to sail to the Americas, either; therefore I want the option to disable it.

To disable it, kill all the other factions before the opportunity presents itself

[AntiochusIII]

I absolutely hate the idea, since it directs the focus away from the true game: Medieval Europe. This is Medieval: Total War (II).

Africa AND Asia are the TRUE extensions if they wish to do so. The Americas were completely out of the Medieval scope, no matter where you look from. The Mali (sp?) kingdom in Africa, and the Khwarasmian empire in Asia, on the other hand...

The African gold trade was important, and one king of that kingdom even visited Mecca in a glamorous fashion. Surely Mecca is part of the Medieval world? The Khwarasmian empire also crossed swords with the Mongols.

If they're in vanilla, they better stay out. Completely. A seperate campaign is fine, though.

[Akka]

Africa AND Asia are the TRUE extensions if they wish to do so. The Americas were completely out of the Medieval scope, no matter where you look from.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Hôjô Ujimara]

It's a really bad idea, if I wanted to conquer the Americas they're lots of games for that, but I want Europe.....

Fond memories of the past months on MTW could never be returned if the Americas were included. And as for Africa and Asia, it should only span partly down Africa, like the Egyptian Nile length, and only span to the edge of the Caspian to include Baghdad. A large map would make the game even longer than it should be, haulign units over the Atlantic doesn't soudn interesting to me, and if there's an increased speed for the boats, that menas you could whizz around Europe easily.

So in short, it should be removed.

[NodachiSam]

I think its a really bad idea and I'm nervous about how they'll implement it. I wish they would have gone east or perhaps straight west. I suspect and hope they put it into a different map/campaign. Having a middle and lower American totalwar campaign could totaly work though the arrival of the spanish probably would be nerfed for balance.

[Gazi Husrev-Beg]

However, if the Aztecs invade Europe then I would be pissed.

Ohhhh LOL....i would be pissed ..i would take game and flush it down the toilet.Than i would start playing MTW

[SirGrotius]

Gah!

I think it's generally a silly idea, though I can imagine in some MP games lining up some Teutonic Chargers against some jaded Aztecs could be appealing.

[pyradyn]

I actualy think its a good idea since you cant go early in the game. Yes it is Medieval total war but the renisance started in the 1400's so about 150 years is renesance and in this time very little war at least benifit wars were really fought most looked to the new world to strengthen their empire and rid the stalemate. Oh and just to let you know 12 year old american gamers are to busy playing there **** hack and slash shooter games lol dont get me wrong thos can be fun. but for the well more "educated and older" of us Americans we stick to Stragety and a few RPG's.

So pack up your ship and make room for your coffers its time to sail to America. Althoug actualy I would like to go to China and Japan if that far mabey India but they already made up their minds and it has already been marketed so its not gona change best be optimistic

[Bob the Insane]

Well Columbus "discovered" the americas in 1492 (though some argue for 1485) and the Conquistadors did over the Aztech by 1522 and did the same for the Incas in 1539...

For a game with a European focus and a time period of 1080-1530 this is possible but very much a small part of the end game. Mind you if they handle the economics better in this version (and you are not aready rediculously rich by this point) then the trade and gold coming from the new world could give the conquoring faction a real boost for the last few years...

I wonder if the "discovery" will be a slightly randomized event like the Marius reforms...

I can see the point of it's inclusion because it is an area conquored by europeans within the time period of the game, unlike all the other places that where "discovered" at the time...

Overall I am Gah!, because I am unsure how it will turn out...

P.S. I say "dsicovered" in that manner because the act of being discovered is always a serious surprize to the people already living there and who didn't realise that they where lost in the first place!

Also... I wonder if they are reintroducing the Glorious Achievements gmae again?!?! Spain would have to conquror that Aztecs to get the points!! That would be sweet...

[Dark_Magician]

So. Good idea or bad idea?

I will only play Azteks if they have crying women, these are my requirements of any historical faction

[dancho]

I just voted "hate it" but I can't resist trying to suggest a few Aztec "special units"

Heart Gobblers. Rush into enemy formations, cut out their hearts and eat them.

Flaming War Monkeys. 'Nuff said.

Obsidian Blade Merchants. Oy!

Tequila Consumption Inquisitors. If they find out you've been drinking they slow roast you over a jalepeno fire. Ow! (But tasty!)

Special Leader Unit: 7 Rat Jaguar. No reason. I just like the name.

Special "everybody surrenders" mode. Entire Aztec army surrenders if 1) they see a horse 2) they see anything that looks like a horse 3) something about a horse.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi,

How about a unit of pox children, for the Spanish, you let them loose in battle at the Aztecs and 50% start to festering with sores and drop over dead. Then you let the rest run away back to the cities to spread the happiness around. Just a very sad thought, very sad.

But then the Aztecs/Incas in late game get to introduce a new troop, Merchants of the coca leaf and all the invaders just sit around on the field being paranoid and start fighting amongst themselves. The cities become poor and revolt, and then the Aztecs/Incas bribe them with a magic white powder that makes it all go away - the cities and armies join the Aztecs/Incas and all is wonderful again.

Ya I know to sad too.

[dancho]

Hi,

How about a unit of pox children, f

Oh, I thought you said pox CHICKENS.

Tactical notes:

Deploy your pox chickens directly behind the archers and black robes (psy-ops). When the Aztecs attempt their Flaming War Monkey flanking maneuver, unleash the pox chickens and set the black robes to "auto baptize."

Use cavalry to trigger the "auto surrender" mode, but watch out for heart-gobbler skirmishers

Yeah baby.

Maybe some folks will feel inspired to add some historical tweaks.

[TB666]

I'm leaning towards good idea.
If CA has done them properly and made sure that their introduction is handled right like they are unplayable and will stay there until a faction has the guts to go over there and will face hordes of aztecs then they will be a great addition.
But if CA has made them into a normal faction that will invade England 10 years into the game then they are a horrible idea.

[mfberg]

If they have done it correctly you should get shipments of gold at the end game for whoever conquers the central/south americas, if its not you then you have a big problem as an opposing major power gets the loot.

mfberg

[Sir Robin]

I wouldn't really worry about it to much.

This game is still at least a year away, probably get kicked back to spring 2007 if not later. A lot can and probably will change in that time.

I do think including the Aztecs is rather silly since the word "Medieval" makes many people think "crusades" or "knights." Having the Aztecs in the mix seems a kind of desperate way of making MTW2 different from MTW.

[pyradyn]

True but would you like them to cut the date back to 1430's or somthing or the game just be very unhistorical and they not even know America exist and just continue owning the map being bored. I think CA isnt stupid and the Aztecs wont be able to sail to Europe so stop bringing that up, not gona happen. The Aztecs werent as weak as you thought yes at first they were stunned but they relized they were no gods the only reason the spanish conqured them and I mean ONLY is because of the disease they brought. I have been to Mexico City many times its nearly impossable to lay seige to that city its in the middle of a huge lake. Plus some farms were on the island and you can still fish and have a supply of fresh water. Who do you think can wait longer. I would love to try to take on that city it would look brilliant if the citys are more into the terrain than RTW. 4 long Bridges to cross and then meet a gate. Not the best in the world but would you like to bring a canon across the bridge to meet a hail of arrows. Plus all you people who want some more of Africa look at a map Aztec Land (Mexico if you didnt know that you should be shot) isnt inline with europe so to include that they would have to give some more of africa and that means more land for you Arabs and of they include all of Mexico then you have pretty much the entire United States and parts of Canada compared to how far north the map goes. Mabey even include Mecca in Arabia so stop complaining and be optimistic its a new thing if you want the same old game in 3D they are making mods for that. Although i love MTW lol. They could even include a North American tribe or just let the Aztecs become UBER see how strong you are then you mighty European power. oh one more thing AZTEC MERCS IN YOUR LINES IN EUROPE. That should have a Shock bonus on all who have yet to discover America but they should be dirt cheap due to lack of umm clothing yes. You know what if its build style like MTW then you could discover the tech to sail like after the Compass and some decent ships. BRING ON THE GOLD AND AZTEC MERCS. Although if they screw this up no one will let me forget it so please CA dont mess it up for me

[Duke John]

I do think including the Aztecs is rather silly since the word "Medieval" makes many people think "crusades" or "knights." Having the Aztecs in the mix seems a kind of desperate way of making MTW2 different from MTW.

I agree. I think it's a waste of manhours and resources. I would much rather see that being used to diversify Europe more then having the Aztecs at the end of the game. And most players will probably have finished/abandoned the campaign before that happens anyway.

[Samurai Waki]

The Aztec Idea is absolutely rubbish because historically speaking it only involves 2 factions, the Aztecs and the Spanish. Those resources could go somewhere else, as suggested before perhaps Kwarazimian Empire, or the Kingdom of Mali instead. I think that as a possible future game, the Aztecs, and other various American tribes could be represented through Colonialism and Imperialism, but on the other hand... you would almost have to make a map of the entire world. I just hope CA does a darn good job of implementing the Aztecs, or I'll just write them a letter about how disappointed I am!

[King Yngvar]

I say no, it means working time the developers must spend on this entirely unique faction, nothing can be borrowed from the European factions as I see it... This time could have been spent well improving and adding European factions, which is what the Medieval should be all about.

[nepal]

We had no problem accepting a successful Mongol Invasion of Japan. So why not an Aztec Invasion of Europe, or at least a successful repulse of a European invasion of what they thought was India?

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi everyone, read with humour......

Excellent point Nepal, this is a game that the player redirects history, not re-enacts history. We make our factions behave, as we would like. We are not bound by history; it is a game of our destiny, our re-making history.

I guess we should all complain when the Moors invade England in our games and take it over, or conquer Rome and convert the papacies religious believes. But I guess the disbelievers are right, CA should set very specific limits on our choices and the AI’s choices in game so we can never stray from the beaten path. Seems boring to me.

Scotland never fighting along the Spanish coast carving out my own piece of the Mediterranean I can call home. Setting up fine castles drinking a fine scotch whiskey watching the sunset and planning my conquest of North Africa.

But a knock on my door it’s the great AI god in the sky…. Oh sorry King Malcolm but according to my book the Scots never conquered England, Normandy, or Spain, and what’s this about heading off to Africa…. nope sorry back to the fine glades and lochs of Scotland for you.

Cut scene……………………..

“You have lost your empire to a mistake in following the true path. Please start again, please read the 1,700,000 HISTORY OF THE WORLD read me file enclosed with your game”

It’s a game. If you want history exact then read some history…or go out and take up something and make history…. find a cure for cancer, a new source of energy, get off the arm chair and become destiny. Because this is where you can make your own pretend destiny, and I am darn excited about settling into my armchair with a fine scotch whiskey kicking some Spanish butt so they never find the Aztecs. And if the Aztecs find me excellent cause I will kick their butt back to that great lake where they came from…try to take my villa on the Mediterranean…hey if you had snow ½ the year you would fight tooth and nail to protect your armchair in the sun.

Well laugh all. It is only a game. And again my qualifier for this site…. I am only joking.

Have a great snowy day.

[ajaxfetish]

I think the problem isn't that people want the game to play out exactly as history did. It's that many people (myself included) want to play Medieval:Total War, rather than Age of Colonies: Total War. It's a game about the middle ages (and that happened in Europe, and some of Africa and Asia), and I don't want any distractions that risk lessening that experience.

Ajax

[Duke John]

We had no problem accepting a successful Mongol Invasion of Japan. So why not an Aztec Invasion of Europe

The Mongols did have an invasion fleet, they did reach Japan, they did not succeed in establising a foothold before a disaster destroyed (most of) the fleet.
Why would it be difficult to accept that it could have succeeded? And why would you compare it to an entirely fictional Aztec invasion? But that is not how CA is going to put them into the game. The previews show that America is a source for resources and to get it you need to defeat the Aztecs.

[sapi]

I think the problem isn't that people want the game to play out exactly as history did. It's that many people (myself included) want to play Medieval:Total War, rather than Age of Colonies: Total War. It's a game about the middle ages (and that happened in Europe, and some of Africa and Asia), and I don't want any distractions that risk lessening that experience.

Ajax

You can always ignore that feature and focus on the war in Europe; it'll still be a good game even if you dont' like one feature...

[Trax]

I really dont think that the Aztecs will only be ther for the Spanish. I´m sure every faction who has high enough naval development level can sail over there.

[Samurai Waki]

Technologically speaking though, there would've been as much a chance that Aliens would invade Europe in the medieval ages, then the Aztecs being capable of crossing the Atlantic. If the Aztecs can't invade Europe, then I would be fine with the idea.

[Akka]

True but would you like them to cut the date back to 1430's or somthing

Yes oh yes !

I loathe the Renaissance era, and I hate gunpowder weapons. The less they are in the game, the better !

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Why couldn't the Aztecs cross the Atlantic.... besides the prevailing winds. With the current they would end up in North France/Britain

The Polynesians/pacific peoples crossed the pacific to the pre -Incas and Aztecs; they have numerous examples of their art and boats. Symbols and art of the ancient African cultures corresponds with symbols and art found in central and South America.

The world and even the medieval world did not revolve around Europe. Lot's of other places to go, explore take a whirl wind tour things are happening in other places at the same time, expand your horizons beyond Christian medieval rhetoric written by for and about.

Can’t wait till someone tries to bring those reed boats up against my caravel ….we ha excitement around the campfire stories tonight. Like one of my other threads lost to oblivion read, it’s a game about your destiny, play it, live it, make it.

Well bye

Disclaimer: all in good humour if you dislike, disagree, disbelieve, dis-humoured, disheartened, dishonored, dished by anything in the above post please display your dislike letter to my district office attached to a green 2006 Jaguar, with solid cherry wood interior, v12 engine, 7.1 Dolby surround sound stereo and a hot chick driving.

[Roberto]

[COLOR=black]The world and even the medieval world did not revolve around Europe. Lot's of other places to go, explore take a whirl wind tour things are happening in other places at the same time, expand your horizons beyond Christian medieval rhetoric written by for and about.]

Thank you some one agrees if its not in europe would you guys give CA a break because the aztects was not in fights with europe in the early medievil period does not mean they should be not in the game. They did not just appear when Spanish came did they and all you history geeks who cares if its not 100% historical go watch time team or something