Includes America and Azteks? Huh?

[Mithrandir]

Aztecs were advanced nation but not in the military way. They don`t stand a chance against any european faction. Including aztecs would just hurt the atmosphere of the game. Expecially because the time when new world started to bring wealth and to boost the economy of spain is after the end of the game. Aztecs would bring more variety to the game, that is true, but if that is the only reason, we could include aliens too. We could say that the aliens (3 of them) landed in europe in 1530 with grand plans for conquest of earth and you have to stop them (using your numerical superiority) before they launch nuclear missiles and destroy everything. For all mankind!!!!!!!!

I think you've just discovered the expansion pack...

[Alim]

I could live with the Aztecs being an unplayable faction that emerges when the Americas are discovered. Despite having a vastly superior military the Europeans would only be able to send a limited number of people in the expedition to Mexico and would be vastly outnumbered by the Aztecs and so the loss of every man would matter. This would present an interesting tactical and strategic challenge, especially if the supplies are factored into the game. However it seems somewhat pointless if an expedition to conquer the New World could only be launched in the last 10 years of the game. Most games don't last that long, and even if they do it is far too late to make any differrence at all to the outcome of the game. It should be possible to sail to the New World much earlier, maybe mid or late 1400's.
However, I can't see how the Aztecs can be made playable in SP. Even if CA gives them units that can fight the Europeans 1 on 1 (and throw all history books out the window), they can only sail to Europe towards the end of the game. Even if the game is broken into differrent eras like the original Medieval, it would still give the Aztec player many years with nothing to do.

[HighLord z0b]

I have no idea why CA thought this was a good idea when they could have just expanded the map east into Mongolia, India and the entire Middle East. I would have loved to see China as well, but I can understand if that was too much work. It seems completely out of place, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time but will mean they will spend too much time on a faction few people will be that interested in when they could have commited themselves to sticking to Europe doing it properly.

Question- could a Viking faction get there in the early period in longboats?

[HarunTaiwan]

The Aztecs actually defeated the Spanish a couple times.

During the time period, gunpowder weapons were still expensive.

The Spanish often used lots of local troops and their own armor, crossbows, horse etc. served as force multipliers.

[Sarmatian]

I have no idea why CA thought this was a good idea when they could have just expanded the map east into Mongolia, India and the entire Middle East. I would have loved to see China as well, but I can understand if that was too much work. It seems completely out of place, it probably seemed like a good idea at the time but will mean they will spend too much time on a faction few people will be that interested in when they could have commited themselves to sticking to Europe doing it properly.

Question- could a Viking faction get there in the early period in longboats?

Only in theory. Vikings traveled over british isles and iceland, where they had the chance to restock and replenish their water and food supplies. It is not impossible that they could sail along the coast south until they reach aztec empire but it is highly unprobable. They would be forced to resupply in a land completely unknown to them, and not to mention that taking that route and going back would take a veeeeery long time. No, before caravel-type ships it was impossible to establish a constant link with the new world, and therefore impossible to colonize the new world.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

L'Anse-aux-Meadows one of the Viking settlements in Newfoundland Canada dated to between 860 and 1060. 500 years before Columbus. They also had other settlements and explored into Nova Scotia, Maine, New England. So yes it was quite possible they could have explored farther south. It seems they never did, or we will never know.

Can't wait to sail my Scots into the gulf of Mexico.

[Dooz]

How can this not be a good thing? It's something new. Enjoy! Who cares if it's not perfect. It can be modded to come close! Sure the map could have extended East instead, but that's easily moddable once again, and it would have been the obvious choice. Personally I'm excited about this. Opens up new and interesting options and such...

[Sarmatian]

L'Anse-aux-Meadows one of the Viking settlements in Newfoundland Canada dated to between 860 and 1060. 500 years before Columbus. They also had other settlements and explored into Nova Scotia, Maine, New England. So yes it was quite possible they could have explored farther south. It seems they never did, or we will never know.

Can't wait to sail my Scots into the gulf of Mexico.

Yes, but is there a single viking-descendant living in Canada today? What happened with all those settlements? They didn`t last. With those type of ships it was impossible to a establish a permanent settlement. Only in the 15th century did the possibility for colonization of america arrived, and even then it was very slow and difficult.

[ghostcamel]

It can't hurt to broarden the game; if you don't like it just conquer europe first...

I hope there are more factions than just the Aztecs in the Americas, even if they arent playable. It would give it some more depth i would think. Plus it would keep them from being totally inactive, waiting for invasion.

How could this possibly be bad? Maybe theyll have two different types of 'water' or vessels. Deep ocean or coastal. Im not sure what the limitation was historically but if it was made sufficently difficult to achieve it could be very cool. Besides, they havent said how far east the map goes. I would be happy if they opened up Africa further also.

Again, how can it be bad? In theory, its good. Of course you can screw up anything. But.... MW2 looks fantastic visually and nearly every featureset has been improved above RTW.

MW2 still has the possiblilty of sucking, but looking over previews and listening to CA over time about how theyve changed production since RTW. I kinda have high hopes for it.

[King Yngvar]

With those type of ships it was impossible to a establish a permanent settlement. Only in the 15th century did the possibility for colonization of america arrived, and even then it was very slow and difficult.

It could have been done, but there were simply too few people interested in moving to the new world at that time. The "colony" only lasted for a few years, had it been properly organized by a kingdom it might have happened, if that kingdom had any reason to flee that is.

[Craterus]

Yes, but is there a single viking-descendant living in Canada today?

I'd bet that there is. There were Viking descendants in Britain, and some Americans/Canadians are descendants of the British.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi everyone…. it’s sunny here and –36 Celsius, with a load of snow that blocks my view out a second story window………

America should be in the game. When the game starts the Vikings still had colonies and contact with Native Americans –the Beothuk natives in Newfoundland and other Islands along the coast.



Viking Village in Newfoundland Canada

The Viking colonies are dated from around 780 to 1210 almost 500 years of colonization. That is just the one colony in Newfounland. Artifacts have been found and are carbon dated and cross-matched with other Norse artifacts from the main colonies in Iceland/Greenland/Norway.

So I believe the whole east coast of America should be in the game from Greenland down to the Gulf of Mexico. Exploration and expansion was a part of Medieval World and I am excited to even get a small part of real history so I can skew it to my view of the world…………



a smoky long house -villa in every Mexican village run by Scots men with an attitude and great tans.

I am taking bookings now………..

Also a note; most Canadians are not descendants of Britain, there is a large amount, but the French have a larger per capita decadency lineage. The Dutch, Germanic also make up a very large part.

enjoy your weather now ..........because you could have snow (please note if you like snow ignore this)

[Craterus]

Also a note; most Canadians are not descendants of Britain, there is a large amount, but the French have a larger per capita decadency lineage. The Dutch, Germanic also make up a very large part.

I was toying with putting some. But for some reason, I settled on putting most. No idea why, I edited it anyway.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Hi Craterus,

You didn't have to edit it. I was really just adding to your comment. My mother was born in Walsall so my brothers and I are some of the people you are talking about. Which, if I could I would move to England so my descendents could repopulate Britain with Canadians that are decended from Britian....lol Do you get snow

cheers

[Craterus]

Snow in Britain happens, the further north you get. I live in the south and I haven't seen snow in two years.

[Sykotyk Rampage]

Excellent, no snow south but snow north, all the more reason to move my Scots from Britain into Central America. Saves building villas in Spain. Just have to figure out how........It would be great..... Scotish speaking Mexicans serving drinks at my villa. I believe that this is a good thing. Now that the vikings have found the way I am expecting to get this done sooner than later. Of course, now I just need CA to cooperate with my plan. Or mod it to my liking.......

[Sarmatian]

I'd bet that there is. There were Viking descendants in Britain, and some Americans/Canadians are descendants of the British.

Yes but they came after 15th century. A few centuries after... Don`t be so literal. How can I put this so that everybody understand? Discovery of america by the vikings didn`t have any impact on the course of history.

[Hurin_Rules]

I have to agree it would have been far better to include China or India in the game than the Aztecs. It just doesn't seem to fit the time. The Americas were only discovered at the end of the Middle Ages, and the great campaigns of conquest happened after the period had ended and the Renaissance had begun. The Americas had no real impact on Europe until after the Middle Ages.

I guess including the Aztecs will help Sega's sales in Mexico, but other than that, I can't really see any good reason for including them, other than eye candy.

[Zenicetus]

I have to agree it would have been far better to include China or India in the game than the Aztecs. It just doesn't seem to fit the time. The Americas were only discovered at the end of the Middle Ages, and the great campaigns of conquest happened after the period had ended and the Renaissance had begun. The Americas had no real impact on Europe until after the Middle Ages.

I guess including the Aztecs will help Sega's sales in Mexico, but other than that, I can't really see any good reason for including them, other than eye candy.

It might not make much sense if you consider MTW2 as a standalone game, but it makes a lot of sense if they're planning an expansion pack that starts either in 1530 or a bit later. In other words, it's probably a "teaser."

That said, I don't know how interesting an expansion pack for 1530+ would be, if they don't seriously beef up the naval combat. They don't necessarily need a full tactical naval combat module (which would be a separate game in itself, if it was done well). But I don't think they can get away with the current naval combat model if they're covering that period.

[Watchman]

I kinda wonder of how they're going to impålement it in practice, and more to the point make it challenging without excessively artificial constraints. Put this way. Let's say I'm playing the Turks and have by the point I hit the required tech hurdle turned the Med into a "Turkish lake", and have the Iderian peninsula under my control. My empire has gotten sufficiently rich and powerful to be largely secure from its foes and afford major adventures if need be. Then Captain Sinbad sails back from his sea trip to China and tells me there's a whole friggin' continent of weird Stone Age pagans with way too much gold for their own good in the way, and I decide it is only good and proper to deliver salvation to these poor heathens which in practice means the Janissaries and Sipahis get on board a major fleet and sail off to play gunboat diplomacy. Or my successor, who happens to be of the zealous and adventurous type his precessador wasn't, decides to go on a major jihad that way mainly because he can and the damn Franks are too obstinate.

Which ought not to be too difficult. When you have Stone Age gear to put against the sort of hyper-evolved ironmongery Late Medieval armies are kitted with by default, numbers and even courage and discipline simply stop mattering. In several instances immensely outnumbered groups of Spaniards in comparatively light gear were perfectly capable off fighting off full-out native armies and suffered only minor casualties in the process; among the heavy cavalry (who were very few in number, but had some very disproportionate effects) death by riding accidents was probably more common than from enemy action...

In short, how to credibly limit the amount of troops the player (or AI) can ship over given the way TW game engine doesn't exactly bother simulating the causes and conditions that kept the historical attemptees from sailing over in force, and/or make the undeniably badly outmatched Aztecs a serious tactical challenge for late-game armies ?

[Ragnor_Lodbrok]

Hey, it's great. I can mod my little campaign, start searching for the feathered serpent and conquer Europe along the way.

[spanakoryzo]

Hi to ya all! Just a new guy to the forum trying to state my opinion. I think that we're talking about two different issues here. For the history prone part of the game I agree that the Americas don't really fit in. But when it comes to pure gameplay, it will be great. It's going to be fun, taking over Mexico with the Moors (or anyone else) and I bet that most of us have thought about this even before the MTW:2 announcement. I know I used to at least!

[Asean]

I would prefer they included the Mongols, so I can invade and conquer all of Europe.

[ByzantineKnight]

They should include the Aztecs, conquring the New World was an improtant part of late Medieval history, and if the AI gets there first (unlikely) it might give them the boost they need to provide a threat

[DisruptorX]

Thank you some one agrees if its not in europe would you guys give CA a break because the aztects was not in fights with europe in the early medievil period does not mean they should be not in the game. They did not just appear when Spanish came did they and all you history geeks who cares if its not 100% historical go watch time team or something

Because they are/were a pretty much insignificant power, and there are more important and/or cooler non-European factions to be added, such as Africans and Asians. You know, factions that actually were in contact with the European and Middle-Eastern factions the game revolves around.

I don't really see the point of adding a stone age level faction from the middle of nowhere in, when there are so many more interesting factions that could have been added instead.

I don't really care, though. As long as they just sit there in America, I'm fine with it. They should make for fun multiplayer battles, too.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I think cavalry has to be limited in the new world as well as armoured troops. Most spanish troops often prefered to wear lighter padded wear in the intense heat of the america's. They should add a secret resource so units can be restricted to provinces and also forts should be the only castle type buildings you can erect in the america's. The troop limit is vital if the game is to be balanced especially in that theatre.

[poo_for_brains]

I don't think the composition of your army should be controlled, although I think heavily armoured troops should have some kind of pe nalty when fighting in hot locations (movement speeds or fatigue perhaps). Also, upkeep costs should increase in the new world, making it prohibitively expensive to take across too many elite troops.
I think it should also be hugely expensive to sponsor an expedition to the new world, so that you must conquer the whole of the new world with one or two shiploads of men, instead of arriving with 10 full stacks of men.

[hoetje]

why would it be bad?I'm curious how ca will introduce the americas to the campaign map and I can't wait to exploit them and steal all their treasures:P
as soon as i can,I will invade the americas and use their treasures to expand my empire in europe/asia:P

[hoetje]

why would it be bad?I'm curious how ca will introduce the americas to the campaign map and I can't wait to exploit them and steal all their treasures:P
as soon as i can,I will invade the americas and use their treasures to expand my empire in europe/asia:P

Although it would also be a cool idea to have africa and india involved :P

[Horatius]

They should have included the Kingdom of Jerusalem instewad.

The way it should work is the Crusade Provinces you take in the Middle East goes to the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and the Crusader units you recruited for the expedition like Templars and Fanatics and Knights of Saint John shold automatically go to the kingdom (along with the ability to recruit and retrain them).