Tumurids?

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Orda's point about how Timur was a talented general with no administrative skill.

IIRC, Dupuy's "Encyclopedia of Millitary History" calls Timur's invasion of India the most serious example of totally pointless destruction in history. Even the looting wasn't carried out in an efficient fashion.

[Dead Moroz]

First of all, Tumurids are not tribe. They are descendants and heirs of emir Timur. The article that Sykotyk Rampage give link to describes him well enough. Except some details.

He (and his descendants) was not Mongol in common meaning of this term. He could be quite far descendant of Mongols came into interfluve of rivers Syrdarya and Amudarya in XIII century. But he also could belong to some Turkic nation that inhabited in this land since early Dark Ages. His appearance (reconstructed by Gerasimov) was mix of Asian and European features (btw, he has red hair). And for sure he was not descendant of Chingiz-khan - because all his life he was just emir (like prime minister in modern terms) of his state; the real legal rulers were real descendants of Chingiz.

The opinion about his cruelty is doubtful. We know about it only from chronicles of his numerous enemies. So this information could be just written rumors or even deliberate falsehood. There is no any archeological remains of described towers of skulls, etc. Like Mongols in XIII century Timur could also spread these rumors himself to demoralize his rivals.

Orda Khan wrote that Timur was just great general but nothing more. It's not true. Timur was good administrator too. He developed trade, built roads, established taxes depending on fertility of plot, etc. He also built (not himself, of course) lots of beautiful buildings in Samarkand that still are brilliant part of world heritage.

This is map of Timur's empire (sorry, it's in Russian). Orange is his state in 1405, pink is territories gained after victory over Ottomans in 1402. Directions and dates of campaigns are understandable without translation (I hope). "Flames" are sites of rebellions.

[Orda Khan]

He did indeed build some beautiful buildings but there is far more to administration than that. He was inefficient because he was almost constantly putting down rebels 're-treading old ground' and any administration he did set up did not last long. His conquests were mainly driven by loot, he ruined trade and has been called 'the greatest bandit of all time'.
He claimed Mongol descent for authority's sake but the truth is he was nowhere near the ruler he tried to emulate

......Orda