Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

[Fragony]

Read me, baby.

It says he got fired.

[Lazul]

Great, some newpapers publishes theese picture, the muslim extremists then in turn burn the flags of Denmark and Norway (for some reason not Sweden).

haha, maybe they didnt know wich flag was danish and just bruned both the danish and norwegian.

Anyway, bruning the flags of countries that have a rather solid nationalistic far right movements isnt the best thing to do. Now they will gain support and then shit might hit the fan.

Just wait a little and some semi-nazi priest in Scandinavia will call for a crusade on the middle-east and so on.

.... humans are pathetic.

[LeftEyeNine]

Great, some newpapers publishes theese picture, the muslim extremists then in turn burn the flags of Denmark and Norway (for some reason not Sweden).

haha, maybe they didnt know wich flag was danish and just bruned both the danish and norwegian.

Anyway, bruning the flags of countries that have a rather solid nationalistic far right movements isnt the best thing to do. Now they will gain support and then shit might hit the fan.

Just wait a little and some semi-nazi priest in Scandinavia will call for a crusade on the middle-east and so on.

.... humans are pathetic.

Seconded.

[Adrian II]

I bet my all that there are bunch of sites around in the trash can called internet that has gone even worse with such religious figures. The point is that there should be a point where publicized organizations and people should show responsibility. This is an easily irritated nerve, it is obvious. Would you say the same "application of prohobition to those that are non-blah blah" statement (or BS) if a nationwide newspaper in Turkey charicaturized one wiping somewhere with some European country's flag ? Come on, you can distinguish nuances.

There are many relevant considerations, but amid all these, the right to free speech comes first. Equating Mohammed's message to a call for terrorism is neither appropriate nor helpful, but it is legitimate to express this view in word or image. Deal with it. I would not print most of the Danish caricatures myself but the freedom of others to do so is inviolable.

If the Prophet objects, he can file a complaint or take the issue to civil court. So can his followers.

EDIT
And about the 'flag wiping', I for one wouldn't stop buying Turkish if it happened.

[Fragony]

EDIT
And about the 'flag wiping', I for one wouldn't stop buying Turkish if it happened.

This really comes as a shock

[Adrian II]

It says he got fired.

There's my boy.

[Sjakihata]

Btw, Adrian do you enjoy the danish pølser? Since it is not really working, I hope you like them at least

[Sjakihata]

Great, some newpapers publishes theese picture, the muslim extremists then in turn burn the flags of Denmark and Norway (for some reason not Sweden).

haha, maybe they didnt know wich flag was danish and just bruned both the danish and norwegian.

They are burning Danish and Norwegian flags, because a paper in denmark printed the caricatures, and a norewegian paper reprinted the cartoons. Sweden isnt involved yet, so no need to burn your flag, yet.

[Husar]

Now, what about me trying to force some of my chrisitan values in islamic countries? What if "my heart bleeds"(free quote from a muslim on another board) everytime I hear that my saviour Jesus christ is called "just" a prophet?

[KukriKhan]

Funny how the 20-foot wide "Boycott Denmark Products" banner in Sigurd's first foto is in neither Danish nor Arabic, but English.

'Made for TV', I guess.

[Adrian II]

Btw, Adrian do you enjoy the danish pølser? Since it is not really working, I hope you like them at least

To be honest I was joking about the pølser orgy. But we have looked around for Danish stuff in the supermarket and shops yesterday. We came up with Danish butter, cheese (Danablue and Esrom), a tin of 'Danish sausages' (not sure these are pølser), a jar of second-rate caviar called (not encouragingly) Snotolf, and some bottles of the inevitable Carlsberg.

A second round might turn up more goodies though. Any suggestions?

[LeftEyeNine]

Now, what about me trying to force some of my chrisitan values in islamic countries? What if "my heart bleeds"(free quote from a muslim on another board) everytime I hear that my saviour Jesus christ is called "just" a prophet?

Jesus is one of the most respected prophets in Islam. No matter how Christianity was deformed, Islam mentions Jesus being holy - like the other prophets are. Islam world has a dense population of mis-interpretors, added the low-life-standard followers, the mess here we are talking about happens.

I'd recommend to ignore such fanatics whereever they are - just like sometimes I do on this forum as well, especially when it is a Islam bashing topic.

[Sjakihata]

a jar of second-rate caviar called (not encouragingly) Snotolf,

This made me laugh incredible hard, what a silly name for something like kaviar, doesnt sound very encouraging at all.

If you like herring, try some Glyngøre products, carlsberg and tuborg are all right, but since you live in holland/belgium I wundt sacrifice a good blegian beer - even to support denmark.

[Fragony]

To be honest I was joking about the pølser orgy. But we have looked around for Danish stuff in the supermarket and shops yesterday. We came up with Danish butter, cheese (Danablue and Esrom), a tin of 'Danish sausages' (not sure these are pølser), a jar of second-rate caviar called (not encouragingly) Snotolf, and some bottles of the inevitable Carlsberg.

A second round might turn up more goodies though. Any suggestions?

Remoulade mia muca. Best sauce ever, especially from Graasten Salater. And now that you go viking, buy the movie 'Festen'. Greatest movie ever made.

[LeftEyeNine]

There are many relevant considerations, but amid all these, the right to free speech comes first. Equating Mohammed's message to a call for terrorism is neither appropriate nor helpful, but it is legitimate to express this view in word or image. Deal with it. I would not print most of the Danish caricatures myself but the freedom of others to do so is inviolable.

If the Prophet objects, he can file a complaint or take the issue to civil court. So can his followers.

Responsibility is a must when it is international.. Can't agree.. Whatever..

What were these Danish tastes you were talkin' about again ?

P.S. Any fan of Swedish chef in Muppet Show here ?

[Adrian II]

If you like herring, try some Glyngøre products (..)

Of course! Why didn't I think of that before? You guys export all these flat tins with herring in various sauces and marinades, the stuff you use for your smørrebrød. Delicious!

[Adrian II]

Remoulade mia muca.

Thank you, mi dushi.

And now that you go viking, buy the movie 'Festen'. Greatest movie ever made.

What makes you think I never watched it? I saw most Dogma movies, but I like Von Trier and particularly his Breaking the Waves best.

[Fragony]

What makes you think I never watched it?

You didn't start about it ;)

Best movies are made in Scandinavia anyway, have you seen Fanny och Alexander(full cut, 6 hours!)? And Breaking the waves is very good indeed, Lars von Trier is arrogant and pretentious, and rightfully so. The only 'bad' one is the Idiots, it just doesn't work. He also did this weird horror series that I want to have, it is set in a hospital but I forgot the name....

[Vladimir]

This event and the French riots are snapshots into Europe's future. White Europe is dying and the freedom of speech may die with them. If the demographic trend continues "traditional" Europeans will become a minority. Germany and France have been unwilling and unable to assimilate their immigrant population and it seems that Denmark and the UK face a similar problem. The US also is having an immigration problem. Personally, I think I'm going to learn Chinese .

[Adrian II]

Responsibility is a must when it is international.

So is truth. And truth can only be established in free debate, supported by freedom of thought, speech, print and movement. I agree with you that acting responsibly is a moral imperative, hence my rejection of the Danish caricatures as unsuitable and inappropriate. But I support the right of people to depict any prophet any way they fancy. I sincerely hope the other side will show some moral responsibility by not burning national symbols and issuing death threats.

P.S. Any fan of Swedish chef in Muppet Show here ?

Hey hey, vhu du yuoo theenk is hees beeggest fan un zee .org mork mork?

[Adrian II]

You didn't start about it ;)

Best movies are made in Scandinavia anyway, have you seen Fanny och Alexander(full cut, 6 hours!)? And Breaking the waves is very good indeed, Lars von Trier is arrogant and pretentious, and rightfully so. The only 'bad' one is the Idiots, it just doesn't work. He also did this weird horror series that I want to have, it is set in a hospital but I forgot the name....

Kingdom Hospital -- inspired by Stephen King it seems. Never saw the series. Idiots a flop? It could be argued. I thought Dogville would be a total flop, but boy did that empty set work...

[Fragony]

This event and the French riots are snapshots into Europe's future. White Europe is dying and the freedom of speech may die with them. If the demographic trend continues "traditional" Europeans will become a minority. Germany and France have been unwilling and unable to assimilate their immigrant population and it seems that Denmark and the UK face a similar problem. The US also is having an immigration problem. Personally, I think I'm going to learn Chinese .

Put your hands in the air, put your opinion on the floor and step away from it!

ahhhh god old Europe....so progressive they never miss a chance to defend a ultra conservatist movement

[Fragony]

[i]
Dogville would be a total flop, but boy did that empty set work...

Fantastic movie, but boy is it harsh to watch. I showed it to my barbarian friends but they didn't get it. Especially the end is great 'there is a mother with kids, kill the kids first and make her watch, I owe her that' yikes! And vivaldi just rocks.

[InsaneApache]

'Mandys' getting in on the act now....

Mr Mandelson, the EU's Trade Commissioner, has now been drawn into the dispute as unofficial boycotts of the offending countries swept the Middle East. Two large Danish firms have reported a dramatic fall in sales.

He criticised cartoons as crude and juvenile, and warned British newspapers not to follow their European counterparts in reprinting them.

He said: "I understand on one level the motivation of newspapers to stand up for freedom of speech… but they are almost bound to cause offence." He said that any other re-publication "throws petrol on the flames".

This man makes me feel sick. He has no right to warn the newspapers about printing anything. It is none of his business and just shows the hubris of the man. Let's face it, he is not really in a position to criticize the press as it was the papers that revealed his unconventional financial dealings.

clicky

[Lazul]

White Europe is dying...

Sieg Heil?

[Fragony]

Sieg Heil?

Call Godwin?

[Meneldil]

First of all, illustration of Hz. Muhammed is banned. That's something from the start.

Great, they are banned for Muslims. Cool. If the event happened in some thirdworldistan country ruled by [insert some muslim fundamentalist group], that would have been fine. But Denmark is, as far as I know, a tolerant country, with a christian majority, with democratic institutions. I'm fairly sure there are no law in the Danish Constitution or in the Danish law system that ban illustration of Muhammed.
Danes don't have to respect laws or rules that are totally foreign to their country/culture. If the danish muslims don't want their countrymate to draw pics of the prophet, they can try to pass a law for it.

I'm glad european country don't give a crap about rules that were decided by some desert folks centuries ago.

The government merely distances itself from France-Soir which is held 'solely responsible for publishing the caricatures'. And rightly so, since governments are not in the business of caricaturising prophets.

Right, the governement has nothing to say there. Yet, apparently, the Quai d'Orsay claimed that free speech shouldn't be used to criticize religious beliefs. I couldn't find sources about that on the net, and since I heard it on TV, I guess it's to be taken with a pinch of salt, but if this is true, this is quite lame, coming from the head of our diplomacy.

[Adrian II]

This event and the French riots are snapshots into Europe's future. White Europe is dying and the freedom of speech may die with them.

Free speech has always been in danger of succumbing to the hysteria of the moment. Remember WWI, Hitler, Stalin, the anguish of the Cold War, the creep towards Big Brother? There have been countless internal and external threats to this hard-fought European tradition. The fact that new threats emerge does not mean that it will simply lie down and die this time round. The fight has always been the same, only the battlefield changed time and again. And it is changing right now. Freedom of speech has found new allies in Asia, Latin America and the Arab world, for instance in Lebanon. Even most Arab immigrants in Europe, many of whom may have trouble adapting to it, couldn't live without it anymore.

[Adrian II]

Danes don't have to respect laws or rules that are totally foreign to their country/culture.

With all due respect, that is the wrong approach to the issue. Nobody should have to respect an infringement on his right to free speech no matter in which country, no matter under what regime, and no matter what the majority religion says. Freedom of speech is a human right, not a Danish right, and it applies to a couregeous Jordanian paper that publishes the Prophet cartoons just as much as it applies to France-Soir. Freedom has no national boundaries, it is not exclusively Danish or European, Muslims may (and do) exercise it just like anyone else, and it benefits them just as it benefits anyone else.

[LeftEyeNine]

Great, they are banned for Muslims. Cool. If the event happened in some thirdworldistan country ruled by [insert some muslim fundamentalist group], that would have been fine. But Denmark is, as far as I know, a tolerant country, with a christian majority, with democratic institutions. I'm fairly sure there are no law in the Danish Constitution or in the Danish law system that ban illustration of Muhammed.
Danes don't have to respect laws or rules that are totally foreign to their country/culture. If the danish muslims don't want their countrymate to draw caricatures of the prophet, they can try to pass a law for it. Period.

I'm glad european country don't give a crap about rules that were decided by some desert folks centuries ago.

Great then, brother, it is a thirworldistan-I-am-European-The-world is-mine-I-am-the-law-I-am-high-like-an-elf syndrome again. I'll leave you in peace.

Look I'll simplify the situation for you :

Islam bans Muhammed's illustration. Danish do it in a humiliating way. Muslims freak out. Some dumb fanatics go burn the flags. Danish companies whine about dramatic decrease in sales. You feel comfortable.

We may be fighting over such an issue over and over again. Neither side seems to understand, has common sense and has the willing to give up their pathetic ways of expression.