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  1. #1
    Intifadah Member Dâriûsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.



    This is utterly insane!
    "The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."


    I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin

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    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Europe should stand its ground... Be defiant and such... Demand the arrest of the fire-raisers. If Syria fail to comply, press them further. If the refuse outright, well...
    Last edited by Duke Malcolm; 02-04-2006 at 16:49.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Ser Clegane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    I wonder if this mob is aware of how much disrespect they are showing to Mohammed by their actions and by showing how close to the truth the original cartoons apparently are...

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    agitated Member master of the puppets's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    true.

    does anyone in the country have an unaltered Quran? i just want to know if any of these people have ever read the words of muhamed along the lines of how you should not kill, respect your brothers, suicide is bad, women are your equals and should be respected, and jihad does not encompass the blowing up of oneself. or mabey they only know the Quran that has been warped by the extremests. i'm not supporting the person who wrote the cartoon, he was just a shallow idiot who crossed the line.
    A nation of sheep will beget a a government of wolves. Edward R. Murrow

    Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. —1 John 2:9

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    Scandinavian and loving it Member Lazul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Nice going you idiot mob! They torched the Danish embassy... but the thing is that the Swedish one is the same building. Morons.

    This is just going to get worse I think, the right-wing nutcases all over scandinavia is protesting and getting arrested. *Mega Yawn* As I said before, humans are pathetic.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazul
    Nice going you idiot mob! They torched the Danish embassy... but the thing is that the Swedish one is the same building. Morons.
    No, this is just the Syrian government's bid to claim leadership of the movement and gain some prestige among Muslims after the late Lebanese debacle. In Syria nothing happens without overt or silent approval of the regime, and since this regime is not averse to killing the occasional neighbouring prime minister it can certainly be credited with organising what happened today. Observe:
    Quote Originally Posted by BBC
    BBC News 24 quoted Jorgen Nielsen, the representative of Danish Institute in Damascus, as saying the building was empty at the time because the protest was expected. The embassy was closed on Saturday. "There were policemen there but it seems to have been a symbolic presence,'' he said.
    Symbolic police protection at a time of heightened tension and increased threats...
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

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    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    The UN likes to debate things for many years, preferably until the chrisis has passed.
    UN talk till the cows die before they come home. The UN are toothless. Idealism is nice but not practical without some enforcement. Law and order comes from the ability to enforce..well LAW and ORDER.

    Someone raised an interesting point at another website.

    \WHy aren't Muslims coming out and protesting against Islam percieved as "extremist". I'm not going to say that moderate Islam is the true Islam or that extremism is true Islam, for all I know it could be either. But moderate Muslims are so quiet, so silent on this matter.

    It troubles me that they don't speak out on behalf of persecuted minorities in their homelands. Anyone care about the Assyrian Holocaust in Iraq? Its not a matter of religion, the Assyrian are an ethnic group as well as a religious group. Or how about the Copts? WHo speaks on their behalf? The last time they dared to protest on a large scale was in the 9th century when the Abbasids crushed a Coptic rebellion after igniting it with discriminatory high taxes and attempted Arabisation. What about the Bahais? The only safe place for them is...ISRAEL - the most hated nation on Earth after the US where they have a magnificent edifice there. If it was in Iran, Syria or Egypt, watch that prominent building burn to the ground. What about the Parsees (Zoroastarians) who worship underground in fear? What about the Mandeans, the Sabeans, the Yazidis, the Chaldean Nestorians (who are the last few speakers of Aramaic, the language of the Arameans, Babylonians, etc, etc). WHo speaks out for those Muslims who choose to embrace another religion like Hinduism or Buddhism, how is it that moderate Muslims don't defend these "apostates" on the principle of free-will.

    Do I sound peeved, I sure do.

    I have Muslims who tell me Islam is a religion of peace. Then why don't they speak for those who can't defend themselves? Or does it only apply to Muslims who can't defend themselves?

    However, I am sure that Muslims on the .org are disgusted by treatment of minority groups by "so-called" Muslims. And I am sure they not fanatically inclined but desire a peaceful co-existence. If they had the chance and power, they too would protest against the apathy of silence in which extremist Islam has more attention than the moderate Islam.
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    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    I love Europeans, they are so...peace loving
    Retired from games altogether!!

    Feudalism TOtal War, non-active member and supporter. Long Live Orthodox Christianity!

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    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    I love Europeans, they are so...peace loving
    Dont say we didnt warn ya. At least they cant blame this one on the US. Nice to see then coming to their senses. Tolerance is one thing but this is insane.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    I'm going to break my self-applied abstinence and bust out a special condom to enter the backroom once more so I can give my opinion which differs from the usual "OMG Th3y R 5uCh cR42y & Vi0L3nT" I'm seeing here...

    I think most people here are thinking the situation is too bad. I guess I can blame the media for constantly showing the same damn images of the Gaza riots, while ignoring the largely peaceful (though massive and outraged) elsewhere and everywhere throughout the Islamic world.

    Now, we all know that there have been many more incidents of very insulting things against the Quran and Mohammed, but since this one has received a helluva coverage, of course the fires are being spread.

    I have heard of no killings due to this...others apparently have, or like in the "Hamas" thread, some are just hoping to inflame the situation...

    The things said about the cars turned over and burned...wasn't that a non-religious but rather racially motivated incident in France last year...?

    What outdoes the rather disproportionatly inflated scenes of flag burnin', hate sign totin', gun shootin', (and BTW, don't you tell me you haven't heard of the "Allah must die" or "kill them all, let God sort them out" or "keep flushing the Quran" signs) is the massive peaceful boycotts against an action which is considered worse then death for most muslims and a "declaration of war" against the religion of Islam (as many see it). Those boycotts are damned effective, and it is the best way to protest an action, and they have been almost 100% successful... Good for them, I'll passively join in since my sister must be offended by this (I never buy Euro products anyway...I buy Canadian and Japanese).

    Here's some more on the protests, I took the liberty of NOT choosing Al-Jazeera as some may not hold it as "fair and balanced" according to their FOX standards:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060203...f_060203182048

    Quote Originally Posted by according to Yahoo news, this is a "bearded cleric" (such great journalism)
    "If Europe stands behind those (offenders), we all will unite against them," said Qaradawi, who is considered a pan-Islamic preacher. "We say to the Europeans: We can live without you but you cannot live without us ... We can buy our goods from China, Taiwan, Malaysia and the rest of Asia," he added, in reference to the boycott campaign.

    He urged worshippers to boycott the goods of the countries of newspapers which published the cartoons claiming that "every penny or dinar paid would go to these newspapers and be transformed into words or drawings mocking your religion and the Prophet."

    Qardawi urged Muslim governments to demand a new UN resolution "banning insults against the prophets," pointing out that "a similar resolution protecting Jews and Judaism has been issued before."

    "If the Danes say they can ridicule Jesus and his mother, can they ridicule Jews? ... No one has the right to question the number of the victims of the Holocaust, not even in a doctorate thesis," he said.

    But he called upon angry Muslims not to attack their "Christian compatriots", charging that those behind the publishing of the cartoons were "neither Christians, nor believers."
    Here's another one from a senior Kuwaiti iman:

    "It is a (religious) duty for every Muslim to boycott countries that defame the Prophet, without waiting for a decision from the rulers," said one of Kuwait's imams, or prayer leaders.
    Here's a guy who was more sad than mad:

    A senior Saudi cleric delivering a sermon at the Grand Mosque in Mecca, home of the holiest sites in Islam, broke down in tears for nearly five minutes while condemning the cartoons.
    I hope these boycotts continue, and I hope they set a precedent for the Arab world, that there are better ways to unite and speak out than letting a small group of wannabe mujahadeen run around yapping. None of these clerics said anything along the lines of violence, which some would be led to believe, and I know that Qaradawi is a bigshot when it comes to Islamic clerics. And on the Shite side:

    Iraq's top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, condemned the cartoon depictions in a posting on his website Jan. 31.

    "We strongly denounce and condemn this horrific action," al-Sistani said.

    However, the cleric did not encourage any protests and he even placed some responsibility on militant Muslims for the negative way that Islam is depicted, AP reported.

    He said some segments of the Muslim community were "misguided and oppressive" and that their actions "projected a distorted and dark image of the faith of justice, love and brotherhood."
    This entire situation reminds of of the race riots here in the 60's. A few people decided to cause mayhem and the media tied them in with the largely peaceful boycotts of the movement...

    Oh and about the UN thing: I'm quite sure anti Jewish statements are protected and they should be, as much of this recent Islamaphobia, reminisces of early 20th century anti-Semitism.

    Anyway, I'm sure I'll be flamed by some here...but I probably won't read those utterly worthless remarks cause I'm off to the Frontroom .

    EDIT: Oh and one last thing that I forgot to address...there have been many condemnations against beheadings/kidnappings that go on in Iraq. Just google it and see how many Muslim groups have called for Jill Carol's release...
    Last edited by Reenk Roink; 02-04-2006 at 18:39.

  11. #11
    Very Senior Member Gawain of Orkeny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Im sorry but making a rule that no one can make an image of the prophet and expecting everyone in the rest of the world to abide by it is ridiclous. Doing violence over it is insane. There is no excuse. Talk about pushing your morals on others.
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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    A good article from Matthew Paris in the Times today.

    Here

    The approach is tempting. It avoids hurt. But it overlooks, in the evolution of belief, the key role played by mockery. Many faiths and ideologies achieve and maintain their predominance partly through fear. They, of course, would call it “respect”. But whatever you call it, it intimidates. The reverence, the awe — even the dread — that their gods, their KGB or their priesthoods demand and inspire among the laity are vital to the authority they wield.
    But let us not duck what that “I do not believe” really means. It means I do not believe that there is one God, Allah, or that Muhammad is His Prophet. It means I do not believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, or that no man cometh to the Father except by Him. I do not believe that the Jews are God’s Chosen People, or subject to any duties different from the rest of us. It means I do not believe any living creature will be reincarnated in another life.
    The man has hit the nail on the head.
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 02-04-2006 at 18:42.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache
    A good article from Matthew Paris in the Times today.
    Excellent, thank you for the link.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    I'm with Gwain. Peaceful protests IMO are going to far. We are not far from a time when countries declared that people should be killed for what they wrote.

    Won't read the replies??? Oh, OK. Again doesn't really add weight to what you write does it: a quick post followed by a holier-than-thou attitude dare anyone disagree with the itinerant prophet who has "graced" us

    I hate to bring it to your attention but the Western World has not been shook to its knees by the protests, passive or otherwise. If you'd further passively protest by not bothering to write it'd be even better...

    The oh so hated Europe has even managed to add a paragraph wishing the Middle East be made a nuclear weapon free zone - which is viewed by many as a slap against Israel.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
    I hope these boycotts continue, and I hope they set a precedent for the Arab world, that there are better ways to unite and speak out than letting a small group of wannabe mujahadeen run around yapping.
    Well, boycotting countries because they respect free speech is certainly an improvement over bombing or beheading their citizens. In a linear sense, I guess exchanging the dumbest idea for the second-dumbest qualifies as progress.
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    Member Senior Member Proletariat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.


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    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Your free speech, their blasphemy...they are perfectly justified, if an employee at a store or restaurant said something rude to me in even the slightest way, I wouldn't go back because I "respect their right to free speech".

    AND

    Yep, I guess we'll leave the bombing of citizens to the allied coalition in Iraq...

    AND

    11000 people losing jobs seems like a big hit...

    And please, don't criticize my attitude, it's just matching everyone elses on this forum...besides, I don't mind disagreeing, I mind personal flaming which I have recieved when dealing with such a topic in the past...and I clearly stated that...
    Last edited by Reenk Roink; 02-04-2006 at 18:50.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Well, the (Muslim) Iraqis had bean doing it for a couple of decades, we thought we'd help... Oh and didn't Iran and Iraq loose a few as well in that war that lasted about a decade? I know it was our fault for not stopping them (when we'd have again become accused of unfairly getting involved in other's affairs)...

    Muslims killing muslims? Must be me, as after all deaths throughout the Islamic world are directly or indirectly due to Europe / USA


    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
    Your free speech, their blasphemy...they are perfectly justified, if an employee at a store or restaurant said something rude to me in even the slightest way, I wouldn't go back because I "respect their right to free speech"....
    No they are not. They are not justified in foisting their mind-set and belief on the World. They are the ones who are wrong. Wrong in thought. Wrong in deed.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  20. #20
    Viceroy of the Indian Empire Member Duke Malcolm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Religious intolerance or freedom of speech.

    [QUOTE=Reenk Roink]Your free speech, their blasphemy...they are perfectly justified[QUOTE]

    You notice wehn Jesus was defiled in the Jerry Springer Opera, Christians managed to keep themselves to a little protest across the road denouncing blasphemy. The protest in London demanded the deaths of the Danish and Europeans. The latter is in breach of laws against Incitement to Racial Hatred; why the constabulary failed to arrest the bearers of the placards I do not know...

    Yep, I guess we'll leave the bombing of citizens to the allied coalition in Iraq...
    You're going to stop? Well done.


    11000 people losing jobs seems like a big hit...
    I doubt it'll get that far.
    It was not theirs to reason why,
    It was not theirs to make reply,
    It was theirs but to do or die.
    -The Charge of the Light Brigade - Alfred, Lord Tennyson

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    -Prophecy of the Stone of Destiny

    "For God, For King and country, For loved ones home and Empire, For the sacred cause of justice, and The freedom of the world, They buried him among the kings because he, Had done good toward God and toward his house."
    -Inscription on the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior

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