What's better, BI or RTR?

[hellenes]

I doubt that. EB looks horrible. And most of what I've heard about the game play is not inspiring.

....

[Lord Winter]

[Nelson]

The posts in this thread need to talk about specific aspects of BI or RTR. Talk about what you like and what you don’t like. Hurl insults and I will close this. Let's keep it civil.

[Ludens]

(...,) RTR and EB are crap and shouldn't have been released at all.

RTR has nothing about that makes it worth playing. Creative text editing could do half of what RTR does. All the historical "accuracy" none of the BS.

I go by what I see and hear. I've vowed never to play either RTR or EB. And all I see and hear are bad ideas poorly executed. Uneducated ha!

People still play it because they are incapapble of changing their play style to the more advanced RTW system. You can't play every single game the same way, and you can't expect to either.

I decided it would suck 7 months ago. And added to my never play by choice unless paid extravagent sums of cash list.

I can understand it if you just disliked them, but why this hostility? They are just mods. They didn't cost your money nor wasted your time.

If you think R:TW is the perfect game, that's cool. But other people might like different things. Like you said, you cannot expect to play every game the same way, and that also holds true for mods. So far, your arguments against EB and R:TR are that AoR is a bad idea, EB's skins are ugly and the slowing of the battle speed is not good. All of these are debatable.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

How about this: Anyone who vehemently criticizes ("sucks", "crap", "horrible", "arrogant", etc.) something they refuse to even *try*, in terms of a mod of a game they are very much interested in, deserves any amount of scorn and disgust that reasonable people can take the effort to throw their way.

edit: Any moderators ought to also realize that expressing an opinion about something (even if it is crude) is different from the type of extremely hostile and juvenile maligning that is going on here, *without any attempt to actually experience the thing they are spewing negative information about*.

[Malrubius]

And added to my never play by choice unless paid extravagent sums of cash list.

We're taking up a collection now.

[Copperhaired Berserker!]

Don't. Send the money to charity, and let my Berserkers ( )make him play everyday and night. He has the worst taste EVAR!

[Catiline]

How about this: Anyone who vehemently criticizes ("sucks", "crap", "horrible", "arrogant", etc.) something they refuse to even *try*, in terms of a mod of a game they are very much interested in, deserves any amount of scorn and disgust that reasonable people can take the effort to throw their way.

edit: Any moderators ought to also realize that expressing an opinion about something (even if it is crude) is different from the type of extremely hostile and juvenile maligning that is going on here, *without any attempt to actually experience the thing they are spewing negative information about*.

We are, and it has been taken into account

[econ21]

edit: Any moderators ought to also realize that expressing an opinion about something (even if it is crude) is different from the type of extremely hostile and juvenile maligning that is going on here, ...

Members don't always see what action moderators take. But rest assured, mod bashing is not tolerated here. Now, let's move along, back to topic...

Edit: Gah! Catiline beat me to the punch.

[lars573]

I can understand it if you just disliked them, but why this hostility? They are just mods. They didn't cost your money nor wasted your time.

Yes it did waste my time. Plus the whole consept of a realism mod makes me angry.

If you think R:TW is the perfect game, that's cool. But other people might like different things. Like you said, you cannot expect to play every game the same way, and that also holds true for mods. So far, your arguments against EB and R:TR are that AoR is a bad idea, EB's skins are ugly and the slowing of the battle speed is not good. All of these are debatable.

No there not. I'm always right, end of story. If you disagree your wrong, period.

We're taking up a collection now.

Don't bother, you'd never raise enough. It would have to be 7 figures at least. Even then I'd just take it and laugh at you for giving it to me.

Don't. Send the money to charity, and let my Berserkers ( )make him play everyday and night. He has the worst taste EVAR!

If you liike EB you do. I have good taste.

[orangat]

Yes it did waste my time. Plus the whole consept of a realism mod makes me angry.

......

Not one convincing argument up to this point apart from a mention about color schemes and some people being arrogant.

Since I haven't tried BI or any mods I'd like to know exactly whether they are worth playing.

[Watchman]

BI is, IMHO. Mods are a matter of taste. I personally avoid the excessively ambitous ones, if only because I think trying to reach an overly high level of "realism" or "historical accuracy" is really a bit silly. You want historical accuracy ? How about geographics, ecology and internal politcal considerations rendering the Rome/Persia war frontier to a functionally unbreakable strategic deadlock neither could make any headway in for one example...

There's no way true historical accuracy over topics like that can be modeled in a computer game (that's supposed to remain playable anyway), and neither should it be. It's just not going to be worth the sheer trouble.

Anyway, at least about all the mods hosted on TWcenter have their own sub-forums or threads or something similar, and taking a look at those ought to give you a decent impression of what the mod's all about. If it looks interesting, well, odds are you could spend your time more creatively than playing computer games anyway so you might as well try it.

[Bartix]

People still play it because they are incapapble of changing their play style to the more advanced RTW system. You can't play every single game the same way, and you can't expect to either.

One of most common complaints about "more advanced RTW system" is it's too easy!

On topic: RTR > BI (imo) but I would not want to be without BI either.

[econ21]

Since I haven't tried BI or any mods I'd like to know exactly whether they are worth playing.

I had a hard return to RTR after playing some EB and BI. Early in a Roman campaign, I sent a 3/4 full stack army to siege a half full stack of Gauls. The Gauls then moved a full stack reinforcing army to relieve the town and my Romans were simply over-run. They died almost to a man, like Spartans. In other TW games, a 3/4 full stack of mine would have been safe but with RTR I was taught a lesson. Now I tend to keep my stacks at almost full strength just to avoid another such humiliation.

I almost quit the game in frustration at that point. The "problem" is that RTR puts unit morale to very high levels so units will tend to fight on for a long time[1]. Romans die almost to a man (well mine did). At first, I thought this was over the top - it probably is from a historical point of view - but when you get used to it does improve the challenge and make the battles more fun. The high morale means that quantity has more of a chance to prevail over quality - attrition slowly brings down the smaller, better armies.

To be honest, BI has similar properties - it is possible to be bushwhacked by greatly superior forces. And even the best armies on a bridge will tend to suffer severe attrition after three or so victories, so they will eventually fold if not reinforced.

Both RTR and BI introduce an element of danger for the player that was usually lacking in vanilla RTW.

[1]In addition, cavalry and missiles are considerably weakened so that usually you have to rely on at least some meat grinding from your infantry to win.

[LestaT]

I turned to RTR (v5.41 at that time) right after I finished my Julii, Greeks, Macedonia & Carthage campaign in RTW vanilla. Never turn back since.

I have BI but haven't even finished any of the factions yet. Still enjoying my RTR 6.0 Gold. But the originator of this thread asked what's better BI 0r RTR then I say both. BI & RTR are different gameplay and timeline.

RTR is a mod for vanilla RTW during the rise of Roman Empire. BI represents the end of the Roman Empire (west at least). So I believe none should have been an issue.

As to the one of the 'hostile' replies I read earlier , I simply couldn't understand why a simple question from someone can turn into a flaming mod bashing event.

As for the comparison between EB & RTR , I believe until EB release its final (or more complete version) then a balance comparison could be make. So, hence my installed EB (on another folder) game is still unfinished.

Cheers.

[Copperhaired Berserker!]

Yes it did waste my time. Plus the whole consept of a realism mod makes me angry.


No there not. I'm always right, end of story. If you disagree your wrong, period.


Don't bother, you'd never raise enough. It would have to be 7 figures at least. Even then I'd just take it and laugh at you for giving it to me.


If you liike EB you do. I have good taste.

Oh, freaking great, another noob on this Earth. Now to finish you off, WITH USELESS QUESTIONS!

Ok, lets see.....

"Yes it did waste my time. Plus the whole consept of a realism mod makes me angry."

First of all, we all waste our time on things that are useless. And there is a lot of useless things. EB isn't an useless thing. It tells you sbout the histroy of the world. They may not be correct in some areas, but they are trying. GIVE THEM SOME CREDIT. So you don't use any mods? All mods are things that deserved to be nuked and forgotten about? No way. So you are telling me, if a supposely realistic game is actually full of goblens with stickheads and that kind of stuff, and a mod comes out making the game at least the tinieist little bit educational, you would flame the mod all the way to hell? JEEZ. You are probably a 10 year-old "Rebel to authority" who hates learning anything and hates genius.

"Don't bother, you'd never raise enough. It would have to be 7 figures at least. Even then I'd just take it and laugh at you for giving it to me."

I'll have to take your life before you get the money and run away. Idiots shouldn't get money. But they do, celebrities are a very good example. You are an even better example.

"If you liike EB you do. I have good taste."

CONTRADICTION ALERT! CONTRADICTION ALERT! You don't know what that means? Go back to preschool. And what determines a good taste from a bad taste. Go on, tell me. If you can't get a good reason, then I'll laugh at your ignorance.

Sorry for the rant, mods. Just got a real bad temper now.

[gardibolt]

While I have no interest in a realism mod, I can certainly understand why some people might want one, or want to try it out. But there's no reason to besmirch the character and efforts of those who want to put such a thing together.

[frogbeastegg]

As Nelson said:

The posts in this thread need to talk about specific aspects of BI or RTR. Talk about what you like and what you don’t like. Hurl insults and I will close this. Let's keep it civil.

[TosaInu]

Unless the moderators here decide otherwise: closed.