Another Bush Lie

[Tachikaze]

MRD:

I too believed as you did regading the relative safety of the SUV and the small car in a collision. There is some truth to it, of course, in an SUV v compact accident. However, in a thread centering on SUV's, there was decent statistical evidence presented that SUV's, Trucks, and smaller "sedan" style cars were all prone to accidents and fatalities at about the same rate once all the various causes were thrown into the hopper. The highest safety margins, overall, were those associated with the inglorious but very useful minivan.

Tachi':

I think you're tilting at windmills again. Nobody is going to argue that pollution is good, that finding alternative means for powering personal vehicles is bad, or that we should just accept the degree of dependency we have on foreign oil.

Your answer always seems to boil down to regulation and government mandate. Typical U.S. citizens react to such things the way any 13-year-old boy does to commands from his parents. We have laws preventing us from traveling more than 55mph on most roads -- these are routinely ignored by a majority of drivers. We have carefully articulated CAFE standards for automobiles -- so everybody started buying vehicles in the less-regulated "truck" class. "R" rated movies are restricted from viewers under the age of 17 -- yet most 13 year olds can recite the lines from those movies.

Short of a draconian effort by the government, which as a by-product will hack your individual rights to almost nil, the best that can be done is to promote R&D and work to reinforce market trends that tend toward the desired result.

The government doesn't have to regulate buyers; it can regulate the auto makers.

[Watchman]

Or it can just tax the snot out of gas. That seems to have worked on this side of the pond - at least by what I've heard of it, on the average the cars used in Europe tend to have *way* better mileages than their American equivalents.

[Tachikaze]

Or it can just tax the snot out of gas. That seems to have worked on this side of the pond - at least by what I've heard of it, on the average the cars used in Europe tend to have *way* better mileages than their American equivalents.

I wish it were so, but Americans still drive mass amounts of enormous vehicles and V8 coupes even after the fuel costs have risen. It shows that they have too much disposable income.

Plus, I wouldn't want to penalize small businesses who need delivery trucks.

The problem with the public is that most who drive big pickups and SUVs use them for single commuting, never filling them near their capacity. They are a fashion, a very ridiculous one.

At least I get to laugh at people trying to negotiate small parking lots or trying to make U turns in big-ass trucks. I wonder if they remember those times when they are at the car dealer.

[Samurai Waki]

America is a large country...like 4th largest in the world, if we started getting extremely high gas taxes it would be the death of our economy...plus 4.00 a Gallon isn't exactley cheap in my book, considering 4 years ago, it was 1/4th that price.

[Redleg]

America is a large country...like 4th largest in the world, if we started getting extremely high gas taxes it would be the death of our economy...plus 4.00 a Gallon isn't exactley cheap in my book, considering 4 years ago, it was 1/4th that price.

Not if the government did it correctly.

If one shows that the efforts of thier fuel consumption is for economic reasons. Ie truckers, delivery trucks, and those in the transportation industry can apply for a tax excemption because of commerical use then a higher tax rate on fuel does absolutely no harm.

I don't mind a higher tax on gasoline - if the taxes collected were to be used to fund research into alternative fuels and to pay off the debt. However that is just wishful thinking on my part.

[Samurai Waki]

Not if the government did it correctly.

If one shows that the efforts of thier fuel consumption is for economic reasons. Ie truckers, delivery trucks, and those in the transportation industry can apply for a tax excemption because of commerical use then a higher tax rate on fuel does absolutely no harm.

I don't mind a higher tax on gasoline - if the taxes collected were to be used to fund research into alternative fuels and to pay off the debt. However that is just wishful thinking on my part.

Well here's the Thing that bothers me, the government isn't hardly taxing Gasoline at all, like 2% Tax. Yet, the price of Gasoline keeps on going up, and the price of a barrel of crude oil still hasn't risen astronomically. And then This year, Exxon's annual profit report has a recorded 27 Billion Dollar increase in revenue. Something is very wrong with that picture.

[Redleg]

Well here's the Thing that bothers me, the government isn't hardly taxing Gasoline at all, like 2% Tax. Yet, the price of Gasoline keeps on going up, and the price of a barrel of crude oil still hasn't risen astronomically. And then This year, Exxon's annual profit report has a recorded 27 Billion Dollar increase in revenue. Something is very wrong with that picture.

Because I can be a nick picking prick - I thought the gasoline tax from all sources is currently averaging around 47 cents per gallon. At the current price I pay in Texas that is a tax base of roughly 20%.


Yep the Exxon increase in revenue is high - but the bottom line is what was the net revenue and/or net profit. That would be a more telling number if something is not quiet right.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The government doesn't have to regulate buyers; it can regulate the auto makers.

Only works in a closed system, Tachi. Otherwise you just up the cost on the domestic auto makers who have to play by your rules and then hand the business to somewhere else with lower cost and/or government subsidies. Trying to regulate your half of a free market is absurd. To make it work you have to have out-and-out protectionism closing off your market. Of course, that has its own long-term problems as well.

Or it can just tax the snot out of gas. That seems to have worked on this side of the pond - at least by what I've heard of it, on the average the cars used in Europe tend to have *way* better mileages than their American equivalents.

And what's the market share of these auto-makers? It's true the average vehicle in Europe gets far more mileage than its American counterpart, but do the various governments use those monies to remove the auto from the equation or do they promote autos and their manufacturers to keep up the revenues from the "invisible" tax they have in place?

[Watchman]

Damned if I know, frankly. I live in an urban region of fairly outstanding public transportation where cars are mainly a nuisance.

I don't really see how "removing the car from the equation" is relevant, though, although I may be misunderstanding the concept. AFAIK the point isn't to get rid of the things (although replacing them with public transportation to as great a degree as possible would be generally sensible), as they're still needed for all kinds of stuff, but to minimize the redunant and/or gratuitious fuel expenditure.

[Kralizec]

Only works in a closed system, Tachi. Otherwise you just up the cost on the domestic auto makers who have to play by your rules and then hand the business to somewhere else with lower cost and/or government subsidies. Trying to regulate your half of a free market is absurd. To make it work you have to have out-and-out protectionism closing off your market. Of course, that has its own long-term problems as well.

?

Why wouldn't the US government be able to regulate this?
US manufactured cars generally have small head support cushions, as opposed to larger head cushions in European cars (making the chance of getting a wiplash injury smaller in EU manufactured cars)
Cars that are imported from the US have to abide by EU safety standards and therefore American cars that are slated for export are equiped with the EU type head cushions.
If you force both domestic and foreign car manufacturers to abide by the same standards, how is this protectionism?