What other RTS?

[orangat]

What other RTS games with somewhat realistic battlefield maneuvers like RTW/MTW are worth taking a look at?

Alexander looked interesting but reviews said it sucked.

[BHCWarman88]

Alexander does suck m8.. Legion Arena looks Cool,so does Imperial Glory or XIII Centruy,I think it is called..

[Ludens]

I never played these games, but everyone I asked thought that none of them could match R:TW's tactical battles. Alexander the Great was too easy. Legion: Arena was actually rather hard, but it put some artificial constraints on the player. None the less, some veteran .Org members said it was enjoyable, as long as you did not expect too much out of it.

Imperial Glory is more serious contender, as it contains both sea battles and a more advanced campaign. However, for some reason I have heard no-one say CA could learn from IG in this aspect, so that's a bad sign. A friend of mine said the land battles were a disappointment due to bad balance. Maybe this has been improved since with patches, I don't know.

So as it is, the TW series still stands unchallenged

[Monarch]

From what I've heard Imperial Glory will be your best bet. I dont think legion arena even has a campaign?

[orangat]

So anyone tried AOE3 or Imperial Glory?
Replicating NApoleonic scenes of like Austerlitz would be interesting. I'm more interested in the battle aspect (formations, movements, tactics etc) since strategy isn't really my cup of tea.

[Ludens]

From what I've heard Imperial Glory will be your best bet. I dont think legion arena even has a campaign?

Not like R:TW indeed, but you have to do a succession of battles with the same army (which you can expand and upgrade in between).

[Monarch]

Not like R:TW indeed, but you have to do a succession of battles with the same army (which you can expand and upgrade in between).

I see, interesting I suppose. Hey actually come to think of it does anybody not think that would be a good idea for M2TW multiplayer?

[BHCWarman88]

I think they should add a Ranking for your Army on MTW 2..

you should be able to sign your army up at,say,totalwar.com
I'll use my Selecius for this Matter
4 Silver Sheild Pikes
4 Phalanx Pikes
4 Legions
2 Chartios
3 Eles
3 Cats
so, you go,say, send them a pic of your army in a army deployment stage, on SP or MP, and tell them the units,and they shouls sign your army up..

you should be able to play witho ther armies, but if you say,win 100 games with the army you signed up with,with only losing 10 games or under (100-10) then you should get,a free copy guide for MTW 2. winn 500 games without losing more then 40 games or more, then you get 2 free copies of TW games (STW and MTW for example)..

[Samurai Waki]

I hate Imperial Glory with a passion. they really destroyed a potentially very good game.

[BelgradeWar]

Actually, I was wondering the same question and found out that there isn't any such game...the above mentioned ones look SIMILAR, but it's not it...of course, you might try good old Centurion, but that's reaaaally old:)

[KrooK]

Good tactical game is earth 2160. It's classical rts but quite itneresting.

[BHCWarman88]

Hey Krook,sup,you still post on .net right??

anyhow,

Earth 2160 looks pretty cool,so what do you exatcly do in it,krook??

[General4Hire]

I've noticed that anyone who is a true TW player (meaning, they naturally prefer it over any other strategy games...just something about it feels "right") really isn't going to find that same "home" with any other game.

Sure I've tried the games mentioned up top, but I just kept longing for them to be more and more like RTW, but they're not.

As for AoE3: GREAT GAME!!! No joke...this game is fantastic, and other than RTW and BI is the only game installed on my computer right now. However, it is TOTALLY different than total war. It's a resource management, economy/military work hand in hand fast paced RTS. It really has nothing in common with total war. Again though, if you like strategy, and you like big battles, you are only doing yourself a giant favor by trying out AoE3. Just keep in mind what I said: It, nor any other game, is ever going to have the same "grip and feel" as total war. The inherit nature of this franchise is a turn based/rts hybrid system. No other game even offers that (as far as I know) ...and it's what creates that feel of "realism" that other games don't give you. Other games just don't let you build your own dynastic power from scratch (or not, your choice) and literally pick and choose every aspect of how you want to carve out your dynasty. The campaign map is totally unique also and is another thing that sets this apart from any other strategy game. It's that hybrid feel of deep strategy on the map and deep micromanagment strategy on a battlefield that make this franchise what it is. I haven't even gone into diplomacy, mods, large community etc.

Bottom line: you're just not going to find anything that really has the same "flavor" of TW. Not saying you'll never play a game you like more, but in order for that to happen, it would have to be a game that's SO good, that it basically reconfigures your taste.

The only two games that ever did that for me were: TW, and WOW. Both changed my tastes in their respective genres, and there's still nothing out that can touch that for me.

[Ordani]

Imperial Glory wasn't awful, but certainly was a lesson in lost opportunities for greatness. The diplomacy model was great, even if there were a few bad exploitable arrangements. The poor battle balance really killed any long term enjoyment though.

If they ever patched it to make infantry or artillery meaningful, or changed the annoying insurrections in conquered territories that resulted in repeated battles with greater armies than the full empire had fielded, I'd definitely give it a second look.

[orangat]

......
As for AoE3: GREAT GAME!!! No joke...this game is fantastic, and other than RTW and BI is the only game installed on my computer right now. However, it is TOTALLY different than total war. It's a resource management, economy/military work hand in hand fast paced RTS. It really has nothing in common with total war. Again though, if you like strategy, and you like big battles, you are only doing yourself a giant favor by trying out AoE3. Just keep in mind what I said: It, nor any other game, is ever going to have the same "grip and feel" as total war. The inherit nature of this franchise is a turn based/rts hybrid system. No other game even offers that (as far as I know) ...and it's what creates that feel of "realism" that other games don't give you. Other games just don't let you build your own dynastic power from scratch (or not, your choice) and literally pick and choose every aspect of how you want to carve out your dynasty. The campaign map is totally unique also and is another thing that sets this apart from any other strategy game. It's that hybrid feel of deep strategy on the map and deep micromanagment strategy on a battlefield that make this franchise what it is. I haven't even gone into diplomacy, mods, large community etc.
.........

I really like the tactical battles in TW. I can't stand micro-managing building and resources and constantly get into trouble in that portion in strategy games.

[Random Dude]

Well, I don't know of anything quite like RTW, but I can suggest a few other good RTSs. Any of the Command and Conquer games would be good, as well as any AoE game, but if you don't like micromanagement, then stay away from both of those. Starcraft is pretty good, too.

Of course, I prefer RTW over any of those...

[econ21]

No one here seems to have mentioned Cossacks or Cossacks 2. I haven't played them (can't bear traditional RTSs) but there's a long thread on the latter in the Arena forum here on the Org and the battles do sound rather tactical.

The other game no one has mentioned before of course is Shogun Total War. The battles in that game are arguably better than those in MTW and RTW (Shinano, anyone?) although the strategic portion of the campaign is much weaker IMO (Hojo horde, anyone?).

[BHCWarman88]

Legion Arena reall does suck. AOE3 is really good, but then again, if you don't like Micro guys, stay with TW games then..

[The Spartan (Returns)]

lots of people who has AOE3 says its not really good.
but i have AOE2 and the expansion and its pretty good.
by the way wats Imperial Glory?

[The Spartan (Returns)]

whoa i checked on Gamespot wats Imperial Glory and it looks exactly like Total War. But it said theres no morale! That sucks!

[Ultras DVSC]

After RTW the best game in this type is undoubtedly Praetorians! It's not published yesterday, but its graphic and gamefeeling is similar to the rtw's. We can follow Caesar, Augustus and Antonius on their way with the main fights and battles. Besides the Romans, we can play in multi with the Gauls and Egyptians which have own units and buildings of course. A great adventage of the game is the very hard campaign in 20 missions. If you can it complete, you are a real warlord!

[MuseRulez]

I always liked Empire Earth. You could play from the stone age to the future. It was also rather hard. Certainly not a "more units = better" game. Even the games superunits (atomic bombers ) are not overpowered. I heard that Empire Earth 2 is even better, especially in multiplayer.

[BHCWarman88]

Empire Earth 2, is really good in Muti.. I have it :-) :-)

[Skybolt IX]

Another game I personally feel worthy of a mention is Rise of Nations.
It too combines turn based grand strategy with a RTS component (its biggest) which is used to achieve your imediate strategic goals.

The historical timeline is immense though, and sometimes feels like Civilisation on speed

[blazer-glory]

Most others are all the same standard RTS fare. They are all about numbers and not tatics but I'd be interested to hear of any others that are out there as well.

[BelgradeWar]

Come to think of it, there is one game that has almost identical hybrid type of gameplay, but in fantasy enviroment - Birthright. Check it out if you can, it's sure worth playing, but it's rather old - 1997. Still the graphics is surprisingly good.

[General4Hire]

whoa i checked on Gamespot wats Imperial Glory and it looks exactly like Total War. But it said theres no morale! That sucks!

It's got a lot of issues other than just no morale. Trust me, 99% chances are that you would be doing yourself NO justice by purchasing IG. If you have RTW and BI, that's all you need...any money you slapped down on IG would probably be considered a waste in your book. There's just nothing that it does as good as or better than RTW except maybe naval battles which are bugged to hell. Besides, although I know I'm in the minority, I like RTW's naval battles...I like the system for some reason. Too bad MTW2 won't even have naval battles (although this really isn't that important during this time period...in other words, really doesn't make a difference to me, and I speculate most gamers).

[Crian]

What other RTS games with somewhat realistic battlefield maneuvers like RTW/MTW are worth taking a look at?

Alexander looked interesting but reviews said it sucked.

LOL The discussion has somewhat deviated from the original question but I suppose that's a good sign . Allow me to join in!

To answer the question, Total War stands PROUD and APART, hands down. For some reason, nobody else (AND that really means nobody) has gotten the formula right, even if it's so logical. Traditional RTS games have been around for quite some time, but none (until Shogun) have truly captured what many players have been clamoring for.

Comparing Total War with the Traditional RTS:
- Battles weren't fought by a handful of troops, they were epic, massive affairs.
- Soldiers didn't stand/walk around then start shooting/hitting each other when they met. They did maneuvers, they flanked their opponents, archers didn't shoot their arrows in melee, cavalry didn't run up to their opponents and started wacking them - they charged! ... (you get the point...)
- Soldiers never got lost because of poor pathfinding, they marched together in formations, side-by-side, in a line facing the enemy.
- Battles weren't decided by how fast your reflexes are to tell that mage to cast his healing spell or those peasants to start building, but by your skill in the battlefield, the skill of your troops, you luck, etc... but really not your reflexes.
- Plus a lot of other things I can't remember right now...

All of the above apply in particular to games with ancient settings, or settings loosely based on ancient times like fantasy. Total War somehow captured it right, and everyone agreed, and it was all good from then on . I've played so many RTS games until I got Shogun, and I never got another RTS after that (except Homeworld 2 but that's different )

[professorspatula]

Worth a brief look is 'Fields of Glory', a strategy game made way back in about '92-94. It was probably the first attempt a developer made to create an accessible strategy game. It's set in the Napoleanic wars era and was actually quite a blast at the time. There's no campaign strategy, just a series of battles to fight. Worth tracking down at some abandonware site. So it looks and sounds poor against todays games, but there's something satisfying about seeing a unit of riflemen take up defensive positions in a farmhouse and single-handily hold off the enemy advance whilst waiting for reinforcements arrive.

[BelgradeWar]

Worth a brief look is 'Fields of Glory', a strategy game made way back in about '92-94. It was probably the first attempt a developer made to create an accessible strategy game. It's set in the Napoleanic wars era and was actually quite a blast at the time. There's no campaign strategy, just a series of battles to fight. Worth tracking down at some abandonware site. So it looks and sounds poor against todays games, but there's something satisfying about seeing a unit of riflemen take up defensive positions in a farmhouse and single-handily hold off the enemy advance whilst waiting for reinforcements arrive.

Played it, sure agree - battles are pretty well done. Just one thing - game will inevitably be to fast on today's computers, and there's no way to slow it.
Another pro - game has excellent unit encyclopaedia - giving info on practically every French, British, Prussian regiment that took part in battles around Waterloo.

You can find it on Underdogs abandonware site (I'm not familiar with talking about other sites - if it's not allowed, mods please remove this) - actually I'm the game host for this game there, so feel free to visit and read the review.