Character Traits Mod

[coltsrock]

I have started to work on a character traits mod, because I think that is what adds real depth to a mod. That is why I love EB... and it annoys me that some other GREAT mods do not go in depth as much. I'd like to put together a mod that adds real character depth to RTW 1.5... and from there we could bring it to RTR and other big mods. I'm going to post all my ideas in this thread.

NEWS:
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2 battlecounter ideas: Numerical and "green-legendary". Both have been implemented. They're being tested as we speak.

TEAM:
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Colts2000:Conceptual, Team leader
wipeout140: Coder
BrandonM: Coder

CONCEPTS:
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>Battle Counter
>Stronger Genetics (possibly some maternal genetics too...)
>More Family Depth
>Mental Illness
>Language Depth
>Ethnic Depth
>Culture Depth

[coltsrock]

Genetics:

My ideas here will be similar to that of EB. I think genetics are going to play a major role in the developement of characters. Here's some ideas I have:

- Mental Ilness will pass genetically
- Acts or looks: Like Mother, Like Father, Like Grandfather, Like Grandmother, or a mix
- Health will pass on from parents to children (genetically related health)
- Some personality traits

Childhood onset:

- "Mentally Scarred", some early life experiences will effect one's personality: For example... if little Ptolemy V's dad Ptolemy IV is killed when lil Ptolemy is younger than 16, then he will recieve a certain trait such as "Mentally Scarred" or something along those lines.

- "Family Life" will be an interesting one to play with. If dad's always away on campaigns then the boys won't learn from him and take on as many of his traits. If he's home, he'll learn more from dad and take on more of his traits.

- "Diet" is usually a childhood onset trait. If one eats poorly as a child, one will probably eat poorly as an adult. this will effect the characters health.

[coltsrock]

I'd like this mod to work like this:

A new character comes of age, and lets say his name is "bob" cuz I can't think of anything else. Bob's father was killed when he was ten by the Gauls. His older brother Bill became faction leader after his father was killed. He takes after his grandfather who was a great conqueror. His faction has been at war with the Gauls and the Greeks all his life. These are some of the traits he may have:

No Father Figure: His father figure was removed from him at an early age. The people that killed his father will suffer.

Mentally Scarred: He remembers when his father died. (Negatives in management and influence).

Hatred for the Gauls: This man hates Gauls. He views them as sub human and would kill one personally without any hesitation. (Positives in command against gauls, negatives in ruling over their provinces).

Like Grandfather: This man takes after his grandfather.

General By Birth: This man has leadership in his blood. (Positives to command and influence)

Dislike of Greeks: This man is a bigot. He believes his people are superior to the greeks. (Positives in command against Greeks, negatives in ruling over their provinces).

I'm gonna start compiling a list of traits and posting them here. Tell me what you think of them... also, I'm willing to listen to your ideas too. I want this to be a public mod, not just my ideas cuz then it might suck. :)


I would also like to add something like a battle counter, wins and loss counter, education, and war info....

battle counter: will count how many battles the character has fought in
win and loss counter: will tally both wins and losses under his command
education: the longer you character stays put in a major city the higher his education goes, this helps in management.

war info: I don't know if this has been done before or if its even possible, but I think id like to have a war info trait. If during you characters lifetime he fights against other factions, a trait like this will pop up. Lets say he's a macedonian and he's fought the greeks.

Fought in the Greco-Macedonian wars: This man has fought in wars against the greeks. Under his command 6 battles have been won and 3 have been lost. He's killed 12,654 greeks and has lost 7,850 of his own men to their swords.

[coltsrock]

I think languages could also be an interesting addition. Say a character goes on many tours of duty in different areas. If a greek general were to spend years upon years in roman provinces and maybe one or two in Gaul, his traits may looks something like this:

Greek: This man is greek and it is his first language (positives in pub order and management)
Speaks Latin Fluently: This man can speak latin almost as well as his first language (positive in pub order, management of roman provinces, and positive in influence)
Speaks Basic Gallic: This man can hold a basic conversation in Gallic (positives in pub order and management of gallic provinces and a positive in influence).

Howz about this one:
The ammount of time that a child spends with his father will effect how many of his fathers traits rub off on him. This will not be limited to childhood. After the character comes of age, time with the father (or faction leader) will effect their traits and skills. If a son stays with his father in a city, he will learn more management related skills from his father. On the other hand, if the son spends more time with his father campaigning, he'll learn more about strategy and warfare from his father.
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Physcologically speaking, humans NEED families to develop properly (there are exceptions of course). And yes, even rulers had families, not always good ones (most of the time they tried to kill eachother) but families nonetheless. A faction heir whos father died when he was young would effect him in a negative way. humans are humans, and whether they are royalty or not does not really matter. What matters is that the negative consequences of broken families and poorly raised children should be demonstrated in a realistic mod. How do you think so many rulers became cutthroat bloodthirsty anti-socials??? It wasn't always genetics, actually, most of the time it wasn't... it was their family life and the way they were treated in vital developmental stages. I think what I've done wrong is posting only the positive ideas rather than both. The majority of the time, dad won't be able to spend much time at home with the fam, so the sons will have issues, and this will come out in their traits. BUT, if the player DOES decide to have his faction leader sit on his arse in a city for some reason, and some of his sons are there... they will end up more balanced.

[coltsrock]

okay, here's the official breakdown post:

I'll fill in the one's without info when i figure out how to. Make suggestions

Genetic
- physical traits
>tall: adds +1 influence
>short: is -1 influence
>average height: no effect
>fat: -1 hitpoints
>skinny: -1 hitpoints
>average weight: +1 hitpoints
>strong: +1 hitpoints
>weak: -1 hitpoints
>average striength: no effect
>handsome: +1 influence
>plain: no effect
>ugly: -1 influence
>deformed: -2 influence
They should appear like this:
Tall/skinny/strong/ugly (results in NO EFFECT) or
short/average weight/weak/deformed (results in -3 influence)
- physical health
>Weak Immune System:-1 hitpoints
>Hemophyliac:-2 hitpoints
>Sickle sell anemia:-1 hitpoints
>Diabetic:-1 hitpoints
- mental health
>Manic(dorment):+1 management, -1 influence, -1 command
>Depressive(dorment):-1 management, -2 influence, -2 command, negative for public order
>Bipolar(dorment):-1 management, -1 influence, -1 command, negative for public order
>Skitzophrenic(dorment):-3 management, -3 influence, -3 command, major negative for public order
>Anti-Social: negative for public order, +1 hitpoint
>Idiot Savant:+3 management, -2 influence, -2 command, negative for public order, -1 hitpoints
- intelligence
>Genius:+3 management, +2 influence, +2 command, positive for public order
>Highly Intelligent:+2 management, +1 influence, +1 command, positive for public order
>Smart:+1 management, positive for public order
>Average: no effect
>Below Average:-1 management, negative effect on public order
>Slow:-2 management, -1 influence, -1 command, negative on public order
>Extremely Slow:-3 management, -2 influence, -2 command, negative on public order
- base personality
>Relaxed: negative on public order
>Balanced: Positive on public order
>Strict: negative on public order
//this is extremely base...more personality traits will be added as the character ages
- ethnicity
>Most likely, each faction will be subdivided into multiple ethnicities...any research from the TWC community would help... but im gonna start in the meantime:)

Childhood Onset
- first language
>There will be a huge ammount of languages, not just gallic, latin, and so forth. We need local languages in addition to mother tongues ...and dialects too, it'll make the game much more realistic.
- culture
>Much like ethnicities, cultures will vary greatly (any help would be much appreciated in compiling a list). The difference between the two is that one is genetic and one is where they're born and raised. If a gallic character is raised in a formally Roman province, he'll be of Roman culture, which will give him certain advantages as well as disadvantages. This will probably be coded into where they come of age, and it'll be assumed that they were raised there.
- mental health
- physical health
- talents
- personality
- education
- family life

Early Adult Onset
- language
- mental health
- physical health
- hobbies
- values
- beliefs
- personality
- education
- family life
- talents
- experience

Adult Onset
- language
- mental health
- physical health
- hobbies
- values
- beliefs
- personality
- education
- family life
- talents
- experience

Late Adult Onset
- language
- mental health
- physical health
- hobbies
- values
- beliefs
- personality
- education
- family life
- talents
- experience

These will be fleshed out as we get to them:
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Personality
Ethnicly Related
Family Related
Experience Related

[coltsrock]

I think we should start off CTM coding by implementing the Battle Counter and then releasing it. Somebody said that it may be a hardcoded limit, but there are ways around that. If we cannot implement it in a way that allows us to see something like this:

"number of battles fought in: 11"

then I think we could do it this way:

"Green Warrior: This man has never fought in a battle."
"Inexperienced Warrior: This man has fought in one or more battles but less than five."
"Experienced Warrior: This man has fought in more than five battles but less than ten."
"Very Experienced Warrior: This man has fought in more than ten battles but less than fifteen."
"Famed Warrior: This man has fought in more than fifteen battle but less than twenty."
"Legendary Warrior: This man has fought in more that twenty battles but less than twenty five."

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The progress on the battlecounters is this:

Numerical battlecounter: Good. Wipeout140 said that it starts.
"green-legendary" battlecounter: Works according to BrandonM

We may release them soon and add the other trait mods in further patches:)

[Cesare diBorja]

Awesome cannot wait for this mod to come out. Will you be willing to make for Early Modern Total War? This idea is way cool! Rock on, people!

diBorgia

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

This is an excellent concept coltsrock, as is EB's traiting system. Have you got all the potential traits already planned in advance, or are you creating them as you go along? Sometimes in can be best to use both of these methods, as even the best laid plans need to be modified from time-to-time

If you aren't using it already, I'd suggest using Malrubius' Trait & Ancillary Validator - more info available in this topic, as well as the download. It acts as a guide as to whether the traits / ancillaries and their triggers work correctly. You need to keep using it to iron-out all of the problem areas in the files.

Do you have an idea as to when this project will be ready? Anyway, keep up the good work

[Seasoned Alcoholic]

okay, here's the official breakdown post:

I'll fill in the one's without info when i figure out how to. Make suggestions

I've added a few suggestions to some of the areas.

>tall: adds +1 influence
>short: is -1 influence
>average height: no effect
>fat: -1 hitpoints
>skinny: -1 hitpoints
>average weight: +1 hitpoints
>strong: +1 hitpoints
>weak: -1 hitpoints
>average striength: no effect
>handsome: +1 influence
>plain: no effect
>ugly: -1 influence
>deformed: -2 influence
They should appear like this:
Tall/skinny/strong/ugly (results in NO EFFECT) or
short/average weight/weak/deformed (results in -3 influence)

Perhaps the extremes should have greater effects. EG a sharp increase / decrease instead of the traditional +1,+2,+3 etc, such as +1,+2,+4 etc (and vice versa for negatives). Basically greater rewards / restrictions.

>Weak Immune System:-1 hitpoints
>Hemophyliac:-2 hitpoints
>Sickle sell anemia:-1 hitpoints
>Diabetic:-1 hitpoints

Physical health to be influenced significantly by father / mother traits? Some diseases / health problems are passed down through the generations, as mentioned. Sometimes a person may carry dormant genes that may become active later in life, depending on natural healthcare etc.

>Genius:+3 management, +2 influence, +2 command, positive for public order
>Highly Intelligent:+2 management, +1 influence, +1 command, positive for public order
>Smart:+1 management, positive for public order
>Average: no effect
>Below Average:-1 management, negative effect on public order
>Slow:-2 management, -1 influence, -1 command, negative on public order
>Extremely Slow:-3 management, -2 influence, -2 command, negative on public order

For the various intelligence levels, how about spin-off anti-traits that may be triggered by certain criteria, EG:

* Higher intelligence levels: laziness, boredom, lax, passive, uninterested, spends too much time at the games / races etc --- the character's superior mental ability leaves him with too much time on his hands...
* Lower intelligence levels: hard-working, determined, strength of character, iron-willed, willing to learn etc --- despite the character's lack of natural ability, he adopts a positive approach to all day-to-day tasks that the people admire and respect...

>Relaxed: negative on public order
>Balanced: Positive on public order
>Strict: negative on public order
//this is extremely base...more personality traits will be added as the character ages

* Enforcer: this character believes that a population (determined by region, nationality etc), as well as slaves, can be overworked in order to produce greater economic outputs.
negative effect on public order, bonus on trade / farm income

[coltsrock]

The "Green-Legendary" battle counter will be released SOON. Its nothing spectacular, it is just something that I always thought would be cool.

Green-Legendary Battlecounter:
>Created by Colts2000
>Coded by Wipeout140

[coltsrock]

Awesome cannot wait for this mod to come out. Will you be willing to make for Early Modern Total War? This idea is way cool! Rock on, people!

This is an excellent concept coltsrock, as is EB's traiting system. Have you got all the potential traits already planned in advance, or are you creating them as you go along? Sometimes in can be best to use both of these methods, as even the best laid plans need to be modified from time-to-time
[...]
Do you have an idea as to when this project will be ready? Anyway, keep up the good work

Thanks for the support guys. Alright, in regards to Cesare diBorja's question... sure, why not? We are going to build this mod for RTW 1.5 but when thats all said and done who knows which mods we'll translate it into. We'll also leave it open for other mods to translate for themselves (with due cred of course).

Now for Seasoned Alchoholic's questions... We have some potential traits already planned and the rest will be made up as we go along. It's a solid base of ideas, now all we hafta do is flesh it out and add some frills. This project will not be released on any one date. We have a "complete segment and release" type of mentality. We will release it over a period of time with different sections... our first release will be the battlecounter.

[coltsrock]

This mod is going to have a whole new language, culture, and ethnicity set up. A sons ethnicity may be different from his father, as his first language, or culture, depending where he is born and raised (We are still trying to figure out a way to do this). But, I need to compile a list of languages, ethnicities, and cultures, and I also need to figure out which regions have which ones. If anybody knows any good sources, like links or books, could you tell me? It would be much appreciated. Thanks :)

[coltsrock]

Here's our first release:

Novus-Legendary CommandedBattleCounter v.1.0

Please leave feedback... its a pretty simple little mod just to give you guys something.