Tutorial: creating new vegetation for battlemaps

[Soviet_Warlord]

The source models will be released, probably next week.

You promised us!!

[Duke John]

Hoggy, you should delete all files in the vegetation folder (note NOT the directories). You should then paste the textures folder in models_vegetation into the vegetation as the included images are used ingame. (The models_vegetation folder is only used to generate the vegetation files.) It works every time for me, so you are missing something.

The TGA.DDS files in the sprites and texture folders override the TGA files. This is done by CA since DDS files are better for system performance. That is why you are seeing the old sprites. The bit about deleting the contents of those folders will avoid this happening. Once you have finished your trees you can see the sprites and textures as DDS files to get better performance.

Prometheus, looking at the screenshots I guess they are using the same type of model as used for the highland trees and trees in towns. They have tweaked it a bit and does look better. But I am not bothered with the M2:TW trees at the moment. If they look good, fine. If not, then I'll just edit them.

They are certainly not the same models as from M:TW as they were just 2D sprites with a photo like texture.

[Soviet_Warlord]

Hoggy, you should delete all files in the vegetation folder (note NOT the directories). You should then paste the textures folder in models_vegetation into the vegetation as the included images are used ingame. (The models_vegetation folder is only used to generate the vegetation files.) It works every time for me, so you are missing something.

The TGA.DDS files in the sprites and texture folders override the TGA files. This is done by CA since DDS files are better for system performance. That is why you are seeing the old sprites. The bit about deleting the contents of those folders will avoid this happening. Once you have finished your trees you can see the sprites and textures as DDS files to get better performance.

Prometheus, looking at the screenshots I guess they are using the same type of model as used for the highland trees and trees in towns. They have tweaked it a bit and does look better. But I am not bothered with the M2:TW trees at the moment. If they look good, fine. If not, then I'll just edit them.

They are certainly not the same models as from M:TW as they were just 2D sprites with a photo like texture.

Please don't forget to release your vegetation! It looks awesome, and I don't have 3dsmax or any of those programs needed to make them myself.

[Dr Octo]

You mention there's a dotmap that relates to how many trees appear on a map. Is it possible then to edit this map and nothing else? I don't think I have the skill to make my own trees, but I would really like to see more vegitation on the battle map.

Presumably all I need to do is add more dots onto the dot map and hey presto, bigger woods?

[Tux]

You mention there's a dotmap that relates to how many trees appear on a map. Is it possible then to edit this map and nothing else? I don't think I have the skill to make my own trees, but I would really like to see more vegitation on the battle map.

Presumably all I need to do is add more dots onto the dot map and hey presto, bigger woods?

You just have to increase the resolution of the dotmap, the vanila res. of the dotmap is 128 so 256 is enough to get some pretty dense forests on the battle map.

[Dr Octo]

Ok, so increasing the resolution will make the forests that would have been generated in vanilla RTW appear denser.

But how can you make new forests appear? Also, is it possible to add trees to terrain that would usually have few or none?

[Duke John]

To increase the density you can indeed edit forest_layout.tga. Then backup and remove descr_vegetation.db (16bit colours and no anti-alias settings). It will be generated again by R:TW with the new density.

It is not possible to add trees to ground types other than forest or scrub. Although I wouldn't advise you to use the scrub groundtype since the models will not project shadows.

[Soviet_Warlord]

Duke John, I can't stop staring with wonder and awe at this picture:



Can you please release your vegetation mod? Sadly, I don't have any modding skills, and I don't have 3ds max, so I'm unable to do the work myself

[Duke John]

I updated my Tree Tutorial with a link to a pack containing some helpfull files for creating your own trees:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...45&postcount=1

Cheers,
Duke John

[Monkwarrior]

Link working and tool downloaded.

Thanks a lot DJ.

[Prof]

when I try to test some stuff, I made (I just changed the texture) it says "error in reading scene file"

[Duke John]

I feared that already... to be honest I just collected my files and hoped that it still worked but apparently one cas file is corrupted, I guess the pine tree, right?

I shall upload tomorrow a new version that works.

[Prof]

yes...it is the pine tree...I can't load it in max either

[Teleklos Archelaou]

How does the whole "Tree_A"/"Tree_B" system work? If a group or set of models references a tree like "tree_A_palm", and the entry for that palm looks like this:

	tree_A_palm
	{
		stat_cat indestructable
		localised_name none
		level
		{
			min_health 0
			battle_stats
			item		tree_A_palm
			physical_info	info_tree_A.cas
		}
	}

How does it pull up a palm tree specifically when it looks at the cas file "info_tree_A.cas"? I thought one might just be able to look up all the palm types (4 apparently in vanilla), by looking for their CAS files, but there are only two that I can see, and I'm wondering where these other two come from, since they seem to be referencing CAS files like the one above. It is clear this same CAS file is used for other non-palms too:

	tree_A_deciduous_summer
	{
		stat_cat small_wooden
		localised_name none
		level
		{
			min_health 0
			battle_stats
			item		tree_A_deciduous_summer
			physical_info	info_tree_A.cas
		}
	}

What I'm really wondering I guess is is it possible to use these "Tree_A"/"Tree_B" trees on the battlefield outside of groups. As the trees referenced in descr_vegetation.txt.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Another question that I'm very curious about. Maybe someone has an idea on this.

Is there any chance at all of making the game recognize trees for climates like sandy_desert or swamp? Swamp has entries in descr_vegetation.txt, but they are blank. I referenced some trees there, and the sprites were created for the swamp trees then, but they didn't actually show up in game. It would be **tremendous** if we could get them to pull up trees (for example, vegetation swamp_dense_forest could populate the space with thick trees instead of the totally stupid flat ground it shows now; and vegetation sandy_desert_dense_forest could pull up the desert oasis trees where the desert does intersect with forest ground cover).

Any ideas about what other file needs changing to get these to work? These are not new climate types - but just attempts to specify the vegetation referenced when an existing climate type intersects with an existing ground cover type.

[shifty157]

As to your first post. The entries you pointed out direct the game to .ITEM files.

item           tree_A_palm

means

data/items/tree_A_palm.ITEM

.ITEM files are used in settlement plans. Every building is loaded from a .ITEM file.

The .CAS files that it points to arent actually .CAS files. They are .BPI files which are similar to .CAS files but the game uses them to create the physical data about an object so that troops cant walk through it and the camera gets bumped up by it. You can find those .BPI files in "data/models_building/INFO/" but they won't do any good.

What I actually did for our palm thing was open up these .ITEM files and resave the models in .CAS format.


As to your second post I can only make a guess as to what may be happening because i dont know enough about vegetation. Did you specify a layout texture for the entry to use? If not then it will come up empty.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Here is the entry I tried:

vegetation sandy_desert_dense_forest
{
    layout 320 palm_layout.tga
    radius 1
    height_range 0.7 1.2
    aspect_range 0.7 1.3
    lod trees
    model sa_tree_03
    model sa_tree_04
}

This references palm trees that are already in-game and working for the semi-arid terrain. It also, upon startup, causes a sprite to form for this type: sandy_desert_dense_forest_0.tga, and also a vege file for this type: sandy_desert_dense_forest.vege These would appear to be ingame just as any other climate/terrain type set.

Now, the key file I would think that 'spawns' these forests would be descr_landscape_ground_types.txt. It sets chances for pulling rocks, trees, etc. for any given climate type. I put forests in the sandy desert slot just the same as in other slots too. Still can't get them. Here is the entry:

sandy_desert
{
	types
	{
		caked_sand	sand
		sand		sand
		sand_blown	sand
		rock		rock
		forest		forest_dense
		
	}

	bands
	{
		caked_sand		MIN		MAX		0.5		1.0
		sand			MIN		MAX		1.0		1.0
		sand_blown		MIN		MAX		1.0		1.0
		rock			1000	MAX		1.0		1.0
		forest		10.0	MAX		0.2		1.0
	}
}

What makes it weirder, is that when I go to the campaign map, the land that is sandy desert climate with a forest covering over it (ground cover) actually shows up with palm trees instead of just bare desert. It is listed as being "Woodland" all across this area - but on battle map it's barren sandy desert.

I thought it might have something to do with our inability to reconstitute the descr_geography.db file, but if it is deleted (or rather renamed), a battle on this terrain/cover type still pulls up grass that is visible on the battlefield, and also a rock outcropping. So it's still pulling things up on the code I put above.

[Makanyane]

Teleklos, I think you are right though about descr_geography.db being the problem, when you've deleted it try battle in a standard climate in woodland, I've just tried to do this (trying to find spot in vanilla map - really need to edit map to make sure what you're getting):

I'm sure this should have been woodland but the only trees its pulling up look to be on special tile - tried one attacking city and similarly only city had trees.

Taking out geography.db doesn't seem to effect strat map at all, so that must read from text files - hence your palms appear there.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

If that image you are showing was from a tile that was 'woodland' and should have had trees, then yeah, that would seem to be the problem. But I wonder why it can pull up grass (down close it's visible), but can't pull up trees. They seem to be referenced in the files the same way and given special stats (chance to pull it, etc.) in these files that can be altered.

Is there any hope of finding a way to parse the .db file?

[shifty157]

The problem looks to be here within descr_geography.txt.

 
 table
 { ;   QUAL_NONE QUAL_VERY_LOW QUAL_LOW  QUAL_NORMAL  QUAL_HIGH  QUAL_VERY_HIGH
  ;   --------- ------------- --------  -----------  ---------  --------------
  SWAMP  rock  mud    swamp   swamp   grass_short  shrub_dense   ; . x x . . .
  SAND  rock  sand_caked  sand   grass_dry  shrub_dense  forest_dense  ; . . x x . .
  SOIL  rock  grass_short  grass_long  shrub_dense  forest_dense forest_dense  ; . x . x . x
  CLAY  dirt  grass_long  grass_long  grass_long  forest_dense forest_dense  ; x . . x . .
  SHALE  rock  gravel   grass_dry  grass_long  shrub_dense  forest_dense  ; . x . . . . 
  ROCK  rock  gravel   grass_dry  grass_short  grass_short  grass_long   ; x . . . . . 
 }

You can see tha while the other entires place "forest dense" at the highest setting, "SWAMP" only has "shrub dense" at its highest setting. It never even touches "forest dense". I have no doubt the placement of "x" has soemthing to do with it as well. I have no doubt this is also alot more complicated than it looks.

Its a start though i guess. Either way this is definitly the file thats the source of the problem.

Doesnt descr_geography regenerate from the text file when you start the game if you delete it? Perhaps there are some differences between the .db file and the .txt file causing for the change in appearance (the .txt file may be an older version than the .db file).

[Makanyane]

originally posted by shifty 157
Doesnt descr_geography regenerate from the text file when you start the game if you delete it?

Err no, if it did I wouldn't be getting see through battleground (the funny blue and white bits in pic are 3d clouds). I think some of the other .db's do but that one doesn't, unless you know some trick to create it??

On a completely different quest
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63086
I had previously tried changing and also deleting descr_geography.txt but (for what I was changing) that seemed to make no difference to anything at all, so it looks like that's amalgamated into the .db but as yet don't see way to amend that.

still need to double check fighting in 100% definitely woodland area....

[Dol Guldur]

I do not think is as simple as a regeneration. I changed some of the text files and then deleted the db file. It regenerated but the battlemap showed a more-or-less sky terrain. So I copied the vanilla files back in and deleted the db file. It regenerated but the sky terrain (blue ground) remained and would not revert.

This would lead me to believe that there is something in the db file that does not exist in the files, or does or does not regenerate - wasn't there a discussion on this topic in the earlier days of r:tw modding? I am not au fait this area.

[shifty157]

So what we're saying is we need someone to make an editor. It wont be an easy task at all because the file is so complex unlike descr_items which just a simple list.

I dont nearly have the necessary skills to even guess at what would have to be done.

[Makanyane]

Dol Guldur - would be really interested in what you deleted / changed to get geography.db to regenerate at all. If I just re-name it I definitely do not get a new file in /data (in 1.5)

Have just done proper test on a woodland area, painted large area in ground_types on gaul/julii border to woodland and set up two armies in descr_strat in middle of woodland, same battle with 'descr_geography.db'

with 'xdescr_geography.db'


Teleklos Archelaou, is it possible that grass we are seeing in close up comes from another file i.e.
descr_grass.txt? - Not sure about boulders, could that be a special tile thing?

[Dol Guldur]

I recently had a big spring clean on my pc and no longer have the test files. I cannot be certain which db file it was. But it defintely regenerated because I had to keep on deleting it.

I have a feeling it may have been descr_vegetation.

[shifty157]

Makanyane. When you delete DG and go into battle do the units still move around spaces where trees would ahve been or can they walk unhindered?

descr_vegetation does regenerate as normal. It seems DG is only .db file that does not regenerate.

[Makanyane]

Shifty, troops seem to move in line without avoiding invisible trees, the bouldery bit that you can still see still counts as an obstacle though.

[shifty157]

So basically the conclusion is that we're completely stuck until someone comes along and manages to create a descr_geography.db editor.

Its really too bad considering how much that file controls.

[iberus_generalis]

when can we expect this mini mod out to the public??

any ppl who have done more trees is welcome to post them...=) i tried adding this two trees to the game but it won't load...must have done something wrong...but i tryed twice, in separate occasions and the game CTD....=(

[iberus_generalis]

i've got new trees in game...yupi!!!! lol

i got a question to someone who knows a bit about the vegetation and the trees...is it possible to include more than one kind of tree in a type of forest?

for example, pine trees of diferent kinds, or oaks, aspen, and yey trees in the same forest? just to give a little more diversities to this already awesome forests....