Are the Imans inciting violence

[Watchman]

Right. So what we have in the Red corner is them Imam "ambassadors" sexing up their case with entirely unconnected pictures probably drawn form some skinhead neonazi site, and inciting the unhappy common folk into raging mobs.

In the Blue corner we have pompous, self-righterious Westerners who should know better copping a blatantly racist attitude à la Exhibit A Fragony here concealed under the teensy-weensy fig leaf of righteous indignation, generally swallowing the bait hook line and sinker, and sure as Hell providing nothing positive to the mess.

I'd frankly be really happy if my generally low opinions of humanity in general weren't so thoroughly proven justified on a regular basis. This crap is giving me indigestion now.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

neo-nazis?

you don't think that maybe the people who went on tour with these were the ones responsible for these pictures at all ?

[Xiahou]

neo-nazis?

you don't think that maybe the people who went on tour with these were the ones responsible for these pictures at all ?

Like I already said, the one was a photo from a pig-squealing contest that took place in France. I fail to see where skinheads come into that one.

[Watchman]

I've seen the "Mohammed was a satanic pedophile" idea referred to in context of ultra-Christians before, so odds are the Imams didn't have to look very far if they wanted dirty pics to outrage their co-religionists with. Hell, they probably regularly get that junk in hate mail...
Not that I'd put it past them to procure some themselves either. "For the good of the cause" and all that. History is full of way worse examples of the same principle.

The Muslims out in the developing world can at least plead low education levels, severely restricted information access and tendentiously biased accounts of the issue. What exactly do we Westerners have to plead in defense of our primitive reactions ?

Sixty-seven channels and nothing on ?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

But how can they ignore their own laws by printing copies of these pictures and passing them around? Doesnt their law prohibit this as well?

[Kralizec]

I also read that a particular (radical) Imam publicly accepted the newspapers apology, and later during the friday's prayer he called up for protests anyway. That, along with the fake pictures other imams have been spreading shows that all of this is the work of a number of radical imams stirring up the muslim masses.
Therefore it's not so much the problem that muslims don't accept free speech, but that they'll believe anything their imams tell them and follow them blindingly.

Fragony: kebab tastes waaay better

[rory_20_uk]

But can't you see this is for the Greater Good, and as such any act is allowed... Well, that's the argument for every bad thing done in the name of a good thing isn't it?

[Watchman]

But how can they ignore their own laws by printing copies of these pictures and passing them around? Doesnt their law prohibit this as well?

I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if the logic went roughly along the lines "I know this is wrong and sinful; however, I am willing to be guilty of this sin for the sake of making my brothers in faith truly understand the graveness of the situation." A sort of "I will commit the necessary crime for the greater good so others don't have to" line of reasoning.

'Course, a fanatical enough attitude simply ignores such considerations, or disposes of them with some really flaky reasoning that doesn't stand three seconds of critical scrutiny. When you are Right, after all, you can do no Wrong. This line of thinking is both worrisomely widespread (*coughbushetcocough*) and depressingly persistent - it always crawls out of the woodwork again, sooner or later. It also tends to require some suitable article of Faith or a Higher Cause to provide the fanatic with the Fundamental Truth he needs to make the whole effigy work.

And the road to Hell is very much lined with Absolute Truths. Some of the worst atrocities in history have been carried out by people who Believed, and hence Could Not Err.

[Adrian II]

What exactly do we Westerners have to plead in defense of [/I]our[I] primitive reactions?

One thing that pleads in our defense is the kind of self-criticism and individual judgment you are displaying in your posts. It is sadly lacking in most Muslim states and in many Muslim religious traditions.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That`s only true for Shia Islam, which makes up the miniority of Muslims.
At least that`s what I`ve heard.

So only Shias are protesting? I dont think your correct here.

[Viking]

So only Shias are protesting? I dont think your correct here.

No, the Sunnies(sp?) are protesting. I don`t think there was too much fuss in Iraq, where the Shias make up the majority.

[Watchman]

One thing that pleads in our defense is the kind of self-criticism and individual judgment you are displaying in your posts. It is sadly lacking in most Muslim states and in many Muslim religious traditions.

I refuse to make any statements or for that matter far-reaching assumptions about that, on the grounds that I just plain don't know what degree of reasoned self-reflection the moderates in Muslim countries practice. Neither, I strongly suspect, do you. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

It's always the mobs and the fanatics who shout out the loudest anyway.

Speaking of which, where does *my* critical attitude let the *rest* of the smart folks who should know better off the hook ?

[Fragony]

In the Blue corner we have pompous, self-righterious Westerners who should know better copping a blatantly racist attitude à la Exhibit A Fragony here concealed under the teensy-weensy fig leaf of righteous indignation, generally swallowing the bait hook line and sinker, and sure as Hell providing nothing positive to the mess.

Irony alert? Why should we know better unless we are better? And it is a blattant lie that I bring nothing positive, I have already said that I like shoarma.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

have already said that I like shoarma.

Is that the grilled meat stuff?

[Fragony]

Is that the grilled meat stuff?

Yes sir! Quite taste with some garlicdressing or sambal.