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  1. #1
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default 500 B.c.

    500 B.C. there was a jump in human civilisation, in technology, science, art, philisophy and politics. It happaned in Greece, in India and China.

    So my question to the historians. What caused it, was there a link between the different cultures? Aliens??

  2. #2
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: 500 B.c.

    Off the top of my head I'd be willing to hazard favorable climatic conjecturals, the same way as spells of cold trigger global waves of unrest, revolt and general backtracking.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
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    Default Re: 500 B.c.

    Iron used in a proper amount and with enough skill.

    In around 7-600BC iron was finally 'finished'. No longer an expensive curiosity used in few thisng (such as weapons), but something that could be used by practically all. And we all know that the strength of iron makes a lot of things possible.
    So around 500BC the results would begin to show themselves.

    But to say it was worldwide is not true.
    The Assyarians, Babylonians, Medians and proto-Armenians had their own high periods just prior to this. But then again it seems this was their time for the iron to be used properly.
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    agitated Member master of the puppets's Avatar
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    Talking Re: 500 B.c.

    It was a second rising of human culture, as always humanities proficiency undulates, 5000-2000 BC was dominated by highly advanced civilizations by even our standards, the asyrians, the Xai chinese, the egyptians. and what brought about this great time of enlightenment was probably attributed to the first agricultural advances (seasonal growing in egypt, rotational farming in mesopotamia, aquaducts in china) which allowed for more food output, also there was bronze, a sturdy metal that could be easily produced and distributed, and also the chariot which had by this time spread all over europe asia and africa, it allowed for better travel and quicker less expensive wars.
    Then for some reason human kind dipped a little, less production, fewer inventions, loss of intelligence and learning. i don't know why that happened, but i do know that we were dragged back to speed by the hellenes.
    Iron was probably the cause of the great breakthrough as already stated. but also there were great naval advances which brought about an amount of trade never formerly aquired, so riches and cultures were allowed to spread, and the greeks who were a great sea-faring people quickly drew all the intelligence to themselves.

    i cannot explain the Boom in china or india for unfortunatly like many americans my knoledge is centered on the west.
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    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: 500 B.C.

    That is all? A little iron and humans reach the top of their creativity? C'mmon, what do you guys learn at university?

    First time I realized that 500 BC is a strange age was when I wrote a book of philosophy's history. Did you ralize that it was about the same time that the Greeks had Socarates, Aristoteles, Plato and many more when the Indians reached the top of their philosophy and the Chinese had Konfuzius? Is this a strange coincidence? Or consequence of iron?

    I also noticed that then all three civilisations were fragmented. Maybe this promoted the freedem of individual spirit. And that all three had access to the sea and probably started to sail.

    Some centuries later the civs turned into big empires and the spirit of civilization superseded by the spirit of power.

  6. #6
    Bibliophilic Member Atilius's Avatar
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    Post Re: 500 B.c.

    The period (roughly) from 600BC-400BC is often referred to as the Axial Age. New strains of thought during this time frame include:

    China
    Lao-tze (I Ching)
    Kung Fu-tze (Analects)
    Latter part of the "Hundred Schools of Thought" period.


    Greek World
    Greek Philosophy - Anaximander, Anaximenes, Thales,
    Parmenides, Democritus, Socrates
    History - Herodotus and Thucydides


    India
    Gautama Siddartha (Buddhism)
    Mahavira (Reform of Jainism)
    Upanishads (Commentaries on the Vedas)


    Persia
    Zoroaster


    In this period, we see the foundation of two of the world's great religions(Taoism and Buddhism) and the re-interpretation of another (Hinduism); we have the founding of Zoroastrianism and the refounding of Jainism. In addition, we have the birth proto-scientific thought (e.g. Thales and Democritus), moral philosophy (Socrates and Kung Fu-tze), and history (Herodotus and Thucycides).

    For such a short period of time, this is extraordinary.

    I think that this is most likely due to an expansion of trade and aided by the spread of literacy.

    The great ferment in human thought at this time must have been stimulated
    by exposure to different ideas and people from abroad. We know that at the beginning of this period the greeks were founding colonies all around the Mediterranean. The Phocians, for example, founded both Massilia and Ampurias (in modern France and Spain, respectively) in about 600 BC. The Persian Empire was expanding throughout the period and by about 520 BC controlled the Eastern Mediterranean from Asia Minor to Egypt and extended east beyond the Indus. Persia thus provides a link between the Mediterranean trade network and India. I regret I'm unaware of a significant link between India and China at this time.

    Trade spreads ideas as well as goods. If those ideas can be written down they travel better and with greater accuracy and precision. Of course for ideas to be written down requires an author and a literate readership. Fortunately, trade itself is a stimulus to literacy since it improves both record keeping and communication between markets.

    I'll leave aside the question of why trade expanded to avoid infinite regress, but when conditions for extensive travel became favorable, trade seems to have been the first beneficiary. Political unification seems to have followed. It's interesting to note that shortly after the Axial Age ended, we see the very first unification of the entire eastern Mediterranean (Alexander ~320 BC), of India (Maurya ~325 BC), and of China (Qin ~220 BC).
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  7. #7
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: 500 B.C.

    I don't think the 500 BC events are as odd as it might seem. The actual changes that took place at the time might be impressive, but throughout history there's a fairly good synchronization between different civs. But there exist reasons why civs would need to get more advanced in terms of technology, and why they would be able to do so. Here I've summarized the major factors inspired by posts above and myself, and looking at the whole it doesn't seem so strange IMO...

    Why the iron was more important than the bronze:
    Iron invented in 600 BC. Archaeological evidence following the development of refinery techniques shows that it improved between 600 and 500 BC. The thing about iron is that the ore is abundant, the main thing that prevented early humans from using it was that the refinery techniques required are complex. Once that obstacle had been passed, and refinery techniques had been improved, it was therefore possibe to make it a product for pretty much everyone, unlike bronze.

    Military competition
    Military competition favored civs who started using iron weaponry. Whether this was the main driving reason behind adoption of iron is unclear. But if a civ without iron gets defeated, it stands a huge chance of adopting the iron technology. If a civ adopts iron, it gets better chances of being a conqueror and not a conquered. Therefore iron technology must have been spread by warfare and conquests. It could also have been spread by trade and other methods, and been desirable because of the military competition scenario.

    First abundant non-argicultural product, economical and social structure of civs changes
    Iron must also have been one of the first non-agricultural products that actually became wide-spread. Such a change must have caused a revolution to social structure of neolitic civs. More professions that don't directly give food and water were therefore allowed, basically starting the second wave of such developments, the first being the one caused by the farming revolution. Such things allowed philosophy and science, among other things, to exist. That way explosions of science, philosophy and art of the time can be explained. The economical revolution probably also caused more long-distance trade - the opening of several long-distance trade paths can be connected in time to this period. Greece importing grain, the silk road and similar starting to form, etc. That also made it possible to easier acquire knowledge of iron etc. from others without needing to face war first. Edit: And as mentioned above the plow and similar inventions meant less manhours were needed for feeding the people.

    Written languages more widespread
    Many of the early written languages were probably developed for bookkeeping. The economical and trading revolution caused by the iron (and possibly also other things), must have made bookkeeping more useful. Merchants who could do proper bookkeeping must have been more successful, and so inspired others to adopt written bookkeeping. Similarly now that philosophers and scientists and others were able to work, those who adopted written language must have been more successful, thus inspiring others to adopt it. While written languages caused better trade and science etc., it also enabled people to write down knowledge and art created over centuries. Therefore, written language is the cause of why we think 500 BC was so impressive, while in fact not nearly as many of the inventions as we think were invented at that time, but probably earlier, and not written down until then.

    Why not pure luck?
    Most events in history that shouldn't be related aren't. So why couldn't this be one of the few exceptions caused by pure luck? Even if the reasons mentioned above wouldn't be enough to cause this development, it could be one of the few cases where Fortuna has played an important role. Maybe instead we should be surprised that not more non-casuality things are correlated?

    The classical depiction of the era gives wrong impression - fact is it wasn't global, and it wasn't too widespread
    Most classical history books that give summaries of the period concentrate on the odd things like philosophy, arts etc. that stand out, but in reality there were more groups that these things didn't reach at all. Plus many of these actual things had already been developed before, so in many cases it's the spread to a larger number of civs that is the thing that makes the period special, not the invention of the stuff. And when it hadn't been developed before elsewhere, an invention almost as advanced as the inventions that appeared in the region in the period had already been developed in the same region shortly before.

    Other reasons
    - Hotter climate (I however question this because would Middle east climate changes really be as important as Northern Europe climate changes?)
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 02-09-2006 at 16:59.
    Under construction...

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