Does this seem petty to anybody else?

This is just astounding. Apparently the U.S. government now has the resources to monitor foreign hotel guestbooks and make sure no lousy, stinking Cubans are darkening good American linen.

I hope the Mexicans do shut down this hotel, so that the U.S. gov't can explain to its American shareholders why the value of their investment has dropped in value.

Mexico says it could close hotel that expelled Cubans


LISA J. ADAMS
Associated Press

Mexico City — Mexico issued a complaint Tuesday against an American-owned hotel that -- under pressure from the U.S. government -- expelled a group of Cuban businessmen meeting with U.S. energy executives, saying the company violated investment and trade protection laws.
The U.S. Treasury Department confirmed that the Hotel Maria Isabel Sheraton in Mexico City was told to expel the Cuban delegation in compliance with the U.S. embargo against business with Cuba or Cubans. The meeting was moved to a Mexican-owned hotel Saturday.
“The hotel in Mexico City is a U.S. subsidiary, and therefore prohibited from providing a service to Cuba or Cuban nationals,” said Brookly McLaughlin, a spokesman for the department's Office of Foreign Assets Control. He was referring to the Helms-Burton law, which tightened U.S. trade sanctions first imposed against Cuba in 1961.
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“The hotel acted in accordance with U.S. sanctions,” he said.
The hotel -- part of the chain of Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. -- said in a statement it “deeply regrets this incident and any inconvenience it may have caused.”
The statement said Starwood's policy “is not to discriminate against any person because of their nationality or any other reason, and to always respect the laws of countries where its hotels are located.”
Mexican Foreign Relations Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez said the Mexican government is considering a diplomatic complaint against the United States in the case.
He said his department had formally started a complaint process against the Sheraton for violating investment and trade protection laws, and that the hotel would have 15 days to respond. The hotel could face fines of nearly $500,000 (U.S.) or even be shut down, officials said.
“I think that there was evident contempt for Mexican law on the part of the Hotel Maria Isabel Sheraton ... and it is going to be punished for discrimination, consumer fraud and, moreover, for applying laws that do not apply in Mexico,” Mr. Derbez told reporters in London, where he is on an official visit.
About 30 people protested outside the hotel on Tuesday, waving Mexican and Cuban flags and yelling “Get out Yankees!” The demonstrators plastered the glass doors with signs reading “Shut down” and “Closed for bowing to U.S. imperialism and harming national sovereignty.”
U.S. efforts to extend its embargo of Cuba across international borders led to a burst of patriotic indignation in Mexico, Canada and other countries in 1996, producing “antidote laws” meant to outlaw compliance with the U.S. measures.
For the most part, the laws went largely unenforced. But now the hotel chain finds itself trapped between a U.S. government intent on punishing Cuba and a Mexican government fearful of seeming weak in an election year.
Other U.S. companies could face a similar dilemma.
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States had been contacted by Mexico regarding the incident. He declined to give more details.
Kirby Jones, president of the U.S.-Cuba Trade Association, which hosted the event, noted that a Starwood-owned hotel in Cancun, Mexico, had hosted similar conferences between Cuban officials and U.S. business representatives without incident.
The three-day energy meeting, which wrapped up Saturday, was the first private-sector oil summit between Cuba and the United States.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home

Agreed - it does seem rather petty. Kind of childish, even.

Very petty. Also seems an abusive. I thought the stink about Muslims applying their laws to other countries was bad enough... surely this is in the same manner of applying ones own laws to other countries...

Hmm. The US forbids private dealings with Cuba. This was an American company, and thus subject to American laws. The US is merely enforcing its embargo on Cuba.

Crazed Rabbit

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Hmm. The US forbids private dealings with Cuba. This was an American company, and thus subject to American laws. The US is merely enforcing its embargo on Cuba.

Crazed Rabbit

Surely this is happening in Mexico therefore Mexican laws apply.

Also what happened to free enterprise?

Wouldn't a Cuba that is doing lots of business deals rip out the very heart of communism?

Why the double standard with China vs Cuba?

It is petty on some many fronts the people pushing this should be ashamed.

And regardless of reasonings... it still looks awfully petty.

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Hmm. The US forbids private dealings with Cuba. This was an American company, and thus subject to American laws. The US is merely enforcing its embargo on Cuba.

True, but the U.S. law in question also tries to stop non-U.S. owned companies from doing business with Cuba, and this particular incident took place outside of the U.S. Add to that the reality that the only ones really being punished in this case are the shareholders of the hotel, and you have nothing more than a petulant act of childishness on the part of the American government.

It's not like they couldn't just bunk up in another hotel and continue the negotiations in the bar downstairs, either. So the "enforcing embargo" thing looks sort of hollow.

not true - there are a hundred u.s. citizen owned businesses (mostly banks) that exist overseas and these operate under local provisions and tax codes.

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Hmm. The US forbids private dealings with Cuba. This was an American company, and thus subject to American laws. The US is merely enforcing its embargo on Cuba.

Crazed Rabbit

It certainly is petty of us to enforce our laws.

a group of Cuban businessmen meeting with U.S. energy executives,

What I want to know is who were these U.S. energy executives and what were they doing there talking to the Cubans in the first place. Did they recieve any punishment for this?

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

It certainly is petty of us to enforce our laws.

It is when they are only enforced selectively and (in this case) apparently with the only possible intent being to inconvenience and embarrass people.

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

What I want to know is who were these U.S. energy executives and what were they doing there talking to the Cubans in the first place. Did they recieve any punishment for this?

A question which further emphasizes the point I made above.

I think this here just makes plain sense.

Petty is keeping Cuba out of the World Baseball Classic. This is like keeping England out of a soccer tournament. Plus I wanted to see Cuba get it's ass kicked at baseball and watch all their players defect at the first game they played on US soil.

Stupid Treasury Department.

Edit: Whaddya know? While looking for a link for this story, I find that the US has decided to let the Cubans get demolish- er play ball.

Major League Baseball's first application was denied in mid-December by the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control, but the commissioner's office and the players' association reapplied Dec. 22 after Cuba said it would donate any profits it receives to victims of Hurricane Katrina.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldc...ory?id=2299485

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

It certainly is petty of us to enforce our laws.

It is certainly time you went and looked up the term "sovereignity". Mexico City. Mexican laws. Not US.

If this silliness is indicative of the general attitude I have an easy time understanding why Latin Americans are often mentioned to resent their "big brother to the north" for arrogance.

Castro may be a pervert and a tyrant and have B.O., leprosy and Clasyphilaids, but I adore the way a guy living on a small bankrupt island with no real power to speak of can piss off the toughest guy on the block to the point of apoplexy (year after year after year after year after... ).

There is something satisfying about watching the little guy drive the big guy ab-so-lutely bonkers.

The old fart gets points for sheer attitude if nothing else, I'll grant you that.

Originally Posted by Beirut

Castro may be a pervert and a tyrant and have B.O., leprosy and Clasyphilaids, but I adore the way a guy living on a small bankrupt island with no real power to speak of can piss off the toughest guy on the block to the point of apoplexy (year after year after year after year after... ).

There is something satisfying about watching the little guy drive the big guy ab-so-lutely bonkers.

We're agreed. He has a certain degree of class. It must come with the smug satisfaction of knowing this.

It is certainly time you went and looked up the term "sovereignity". Mexico City. Mexican laws. Not US.

It was a US company thats bound by US law not Mexican when it comes to these matters.

So why pick on little Cuba and not big old China?

Surely if trade can help make China better, surely it would make Cuba better?

I dont like trading with China either. Besides their two very different animals. Chinas leaders arent going to die or go away very soon. With Cuba its just a matter of time until the Tyrant passes on.

Plus I dont think China comes under the Monroe Doctrine.

Yeah, China's a big animal that'll fight back, more like.

Originally Posted by Beirut

There is something satisfying about watching the little guy imprison dissenters.

Fixed!

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Hmm. The US forbids private dealings with Cuba. This was an American company, and thus subject to American laws. The US is merely enforcing its embargo on Cuba.

No. Associations must respect and uphold the law of the country in wich they're operating. In the case of a real estate, it's subject to the regulations of the country in wich it's placed.

I really want to know what is this law that forbids dealings with cubans, if it's what it seems, then it's incredible discriminatory. Besides that, USA has no imperium in mexican territory, what they did was stealing sovereingty.

Originally Posted by Watchman

If this silliness is indicative of the general attitude I have an easy time understanding why Latin Americans are often mentioned to resent their "big brother to the north" for arrogance.

Silliness? I think it's full of intention, it's not silly at all. Though I loved the use of the expression "big brother", though this has many implications, I consider the US to be the father of the world.

If they paid for their hotel room they should be allowed privacy, that's all I'm gonna say.

I don't even know why we still have an embargo against Cuba. It's been over 40 years since the missile crisis and the bay of pigs. We haven't held this same level of stubborn retribution against many other nations, and in nearly every diplomatic spat we get in with Castro, he manages to humiliate us. Whatever our intentions may be, our actions aren't proving very successful. As far as I'm concerned, this is about an argument from two of my lifetimes ago, and I'm ready to be over it. Furthermore, I'm upset about Muslim nations trying to enforce their opinions within other nations, and I absolutely hate hypocrisy.

Ajax

Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny

It was a US company thats bound by US law not Mexican when it comes to these matters.

So, are you for example claiming it's entitled to the same extraterritorial rights as embassies ?

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. And more to the point obey the Roman laws and not your icky foreign barbarian ones, or it's rods-and-axes for you.

Originally Posted by ajaxfetish

I don't even know why we still have an embargo against Cuba. It's been over 40 years since the missile crisis and the bay of pigs. We haven't held this same level of stubborn retribution against many other nations, and in nearly every diplomatic spat we get in with Castro, he manages to humiliate us. Whatever our intentions may be, our actions aren't proving very successful. As far as I'm concerned, this is about an argument from two of my lifetimes ago, and I'm ready to be over it. Furthermore, I'm upset about Muslim nations trying to enforce their opinions within other nations, and I absolutely hate hypocrisy.

Ajax

A grown-up response to Cuba from an American, I never thought I'd hear that. Move on.

Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good

Fixed!

I wonder which country, the US or Cuba, has the higher percentage of it's own citizens in jail? Just curious.

Let's be honest - this US/Cuba thing has nothing, nada, nyet, less than zero to do with morals and freedom. It's all about money & power.

Worse than that, Beirut. The Cuba embargo is all about getting the Cuban-American vote in Florida. It's disgusting.

I think the embargo against Cuba is one of the most idiotic, counter-productive (on it's stated goal), ridiculous policy the US has ever come up with. Unless the stated goal is appeasing Cuban American voters in South Florida, it has been any abysmal failure. It's about as contrary to American principles as any policy we've had, and we've had some doozies.

That being said, CR is 100% correct. While it remains the law of the land, we are legally obligated to honor it. I'm not even allowed to buy a Cuban cigar in Hong Kong and smoke it there. I could theoretically get arrested by a consulate official. I'm a law and order kinda guy, and while I may not agree with a particular law, unless obeying it would hurt an innocent party, I strongly believe it's incumbent on me to work to change the law, not ignore it.

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Worse than that, Beirut. The Cuba embargo is all about getting the Cuban-American vote in Florida. It's disgusting.

Yep, it's really a shame.

And what's sad as well is that the second Castro dies, an invasion of American lawyers will descend upon Cuba to "reclaim" all that lovely beachfront real estate. "Your commie stole it from our mobsters and we want it back!"

The locals will be reduced to being waiters in their own country. Again.

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Worse than that, Beirut. The Cuba embargo is all about getting the Cuban-American vote in Florida. It's disgusting.

I think the embargo against Cuba is one of the most idiotic, counter-productive (on it's stated goal), ridiculous policy the US has ever come up with. Unless the stated goal is appeasing Cuban American voters in South Florida, it has been any abysmal failure. It's about as contrary to American principles as any policy we've had, and we've had some doozies.

That being said, CR is 100% correct. While it remains the law of the land, we are legally obligated to honor it. I'm not even allowed to buy a Cuban cigar in Hong Kong and smoke it there. I could theoretically get arrested by a consulate official. I'm a law and order kinda guy, and while I may not agree with a particular law, unless obeying it would hurt an innocent party, I strongly believe it's incumbent on me to work to change the law, not ignore it.

Absolutelly.....the embargo more than anything is what keeps Fidel´s regime going, without the american "boogeyman" for him to talk about and such things I think that he would have been overthrown by now.

On the subject of a law....how the hell can a country have a piece of legislation that is applicable outside it´s borders????? that´s just nuts.