New Hard Drive suggestions

[alman7272]

I bought a new hard drive that's 250 GB (Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 - SATAII). I'm going to use it as my new main drive, while my old one will be formatted (because I've been having problems with drivers on it, I think so I want to clean it).

So here's what I'm doing, tell me if there's anything wrong. I've never done this before.

1) Install new hdd as master drive, old one as slave drive
2) Install XP onto new hdd
3) Partition new hdd like so

• Disk 0
  
  • 10 GB - system
  • 180 GB - programs
  • 60 GB - data

4) Move data from old hard drive to new hard drive
5) Format old hard drive
6) Install programs, etc onto new hard drive
7) Partition old hard drive

• Disk 1
  
  • Paging File - 4 GB
  • Backups - 76 GB

are there any possible problems?

[lars573]

I asked my supervisor and he said that you might want to have some more space for system just incase.

[alman7272]

k, so making the new drive master wont kill off anything on the old drive even if it's made slave? because I'll allot 5 more GB to my system if that's ok.

[Beirut]

Hey Lars573,

Since you seem to be in the know; is it worth the trouble to have a second HD that you would use only for a specific game in order to get max FPS? I was thinking of getting an older, smaller 7200 HD and using that as an E: drive for just this reason.

What would you need on the second HD, besides the game itself, in order to run it?

[alman7272]

I know I'm not the person you addressed, but as far as I know, I think you'd only need to create a partition for the game to run on it. Basically, just install the drive, partition it, and then install the game into a directory on that drive and you should be set to go so long as your OS is installed on the other hard drive. That's what I think.

[Beirut]

Thanks.

Do you think a partitioned drive would have the same speed of access as a separate drive that had nothing on it but the game?

[Papewaio]

Paging files... you want those on the fastest drive... a 15k one if you have access to it.

The slower the harddrive and the rate at which you can access that memory the slower your page files and hence slower your machine will run under load.

[alman7272]

Oh...well both drives are 7200 RPM, but the Sata is 3.0Gb/s

anyway...doesn't matter. having some complications atm since Windows doesn't like letting people custom install into another drive path, so I have to wait40 minutes for a reinstall on my old drive... then...trick Windows into installing on my new one by changing the letters.

and to Beirut:

I don't know, but I would think that it would seeing as it wouldn't have as many other processes straining it. but, I do not know. there are still other factors like the memory involved and if the page file (virtual memory) is strained, you may not get much faster but I'd assume you should be able to go faster.

[Xiahou]

Performance wise, it's really not going to make any difference at all if both drives are still on the same channel is it? You can still only read/write to one at a time. Now if you could get them on different channels we might be getting somewhere.

The nicest thing about having your pagefile on a seperate drive/partition is that it won't fragment your main parition like it would if it still resided there.

[alman7272]

They aren't on the same channel. But I can't get Windows off my original one because it's the system partition. I want my new one to be the system partition and right now it just says "boot."

[Xiahou]

They aren't on the same channel.

Right, SATA.
I guess it was your use of master/slave that threw me.

As to your problem.... Im not sure I follow you. Are you trying to do a clean install on your new HD? If so, why not just leave your old drive disconnected until you get the new one setup, so as not to confuse things.

[alman7272]

My new hdd is Disk 1
My old one is Disk 0

I can't format disk 0 because it has the system partition

I also can't connect to the internet.

Does the system partition HAVE to be on Disk 0? and how do I change a drive from Disk 1 to Disk 0?

[lars573]

Oh...well both drives are 7200 RPM, but the Sata is 3.0Gb/s

anyway...doesn't matter. having some complications atm since Windows doesn't like letting people custom install into another drive path, so I have to wait40 minutes for a reinstall on my old drive... then...trick Windows into installing on my new one by changing the letters.

Don't do that!! Pull (as in physically remove) your old drive and install windows on your new one. After that's done reconnect the old drive and transfer data that way. Also is the old drive IDE or SATA? If your old drive is IDE you may have to fug with the BIOS. If not it should be easier.

Hey Lars573,

Since you seem to be in the know; is it worth the trouble to have a second HD that you would use only for a specific game in order to get max FPS? I was thinking of getting an older, smaller 7200 HD and using that as an E: drive for just this reason.

What would you need on the second HD, besides the game itself, in order to run it?

To answer your questions in order.
1.I'm not but my supervisor at work is. He's about your age Beirut (~40) and has been fracking with PC's since his early 20's. I can pick his brain while at work from 9-5 AST.
2.I'm not sure but my gut tells me no. As the OS is still on another drive. I'd have to ask to be sure.
3.It can be as blank as a valley girls mind. XP will auto detect and assgin a letter value to any new drive it detects.

(Please refrain from making comments involving dancing deities from any religion. - Beirut)

[alman7272]

I already partitioned the new drive and everything was going swell.

But now when I removed the old one for one boot everything died and the NTLDR is missing. So, it's all gone bad.

[Phatose]

You know, it kind of sound to me like you installed windows to the new drive, but left the old one as the boot device. In that case, it would've, I believe, put system files like ntldr on the old drive, but the core windows files on the new one.

Did you go into your BIOS and set the new drive to be the first boot device?

[alman7272]

The boot devices, IIRC, are like this:

1: removable
2: cd
3: hard disk (does not specify which one)

anyway, everything's been done completely over again, dudes.

[Lemur]

You should be able to see and modify your boot order from the BIOS. It's a useful thing to manage ...

[alman7272]

But it doesn't specify which hard drive to boot first. plus, I can't change the priority for the hard drives. also, I just installed windows onto my new one, yet it still isn't designated as the system drive, so I'm just going to give up on trying to make it the system drive. it's impossible. it's always going to be just a boot drive...

[orangat]

How did you install the OS on the new sata drive? Did you pull the old one out first?

[R'as al Ghul]

The nicest thing about having your pagefile on a seperate drive/partition is that it won't fragment your main parition like it would if it still resided there.

There's a workaround for this problem.
To keep your pagefile on your main partition and avoid defragmentation
follow these steps:
1. disable the pagefile
2. reboot
3. defrag
4. reactivate the pagefile but specify its min and max to the same number
Example: min=512MB max =512MB

What you've done is to assign a certain 512MB block to your pagefile.
The physical address of this pagefile will never change.
Fragmentation due to pagefile use is now impossible.

[TosaInu]

Hey Lars573,

Since you seem to be in the know; is it worth the trouble to have a second HD that you would use only for a specific game in order to get max FPS? I was thinking of getting an older, smaller 7200 HD and using that as an E: drive for just this reason.

What would you need on the second HD, besides the game itself, in order to run it?

You need nothing on the second HD. Your OS will install a driver for it (usually extract it from XP OS, but there may be a vendors).

Thanks.

Do you think a partitioned drive would have the same speed of access as a separate drive that had nothing on it but the game?

You may very well gain there. But, how glorious it will be is hard to say.
The seperate drive will be faster, erm should be. You have to make and keep it that way.

The HD is one of the slowest parts in a PC. When you are in need of something really fast (and your RAM slots are already filled): http://www.cluboc.net/reviews/hard_d...igabyte/I-RAM/
gigabyte i-ram
Cost some bucks, really think twice. Is this the answer?

A HD disk contains blocks that can store data. Those blocks are arranged in a 'spiral'. The computer starts filling the disk from outside to the center. Partition C is normally/always on the outside, while partition E is more towards the center.
-Blocks have the same size anywhere on the disk. There are exceptions of course.
-The outside of a disk has a larger circumventium then the inside -> outside contains more datablocks.
-The disk spins at 7,200 RPM everywhere -> more blocks will be read on the outside than on the inside in the same amount of time. Another effect is that more data, that can be scattered over several blocks, will be read with less movement of the reading head than compared to a similar condition partition on the inside -> faster.

Since your normal E partition is likely more inside and the new drive will put E on the outside, it will be faster.

Depending on the game, the amount of RAM and your SWAP file usuage, your current drive will have to perform tasks not directly related to the game. This can mean that the reading head has to travel from partition to partition -> cost time.

Installing the most demanding games on front (D, E, F) partitions and data on the last/inside one(s) is a very good idea.

Having two disks will not only ensure E is on the fast outside, it also means that the movement of reading heads will be minimal.

There's another important benefit in having a small partition (in this case new disk) for your game. Any disk will beome fragmented over time, scattered datablocks that belong together all over the place. That can seriously hurt. It's important to defrag: that take time, but not so much on a small fast partition.

A small healthy disk should also result in a better working diskcache.

If you don't have that much RAM and/or use the SWAPfile a lot, then you should consider putting that on a fast 2nd HD. You'll gain more from that then.

Make both disks master on their own channel.
Buy a fast 2nd HD. A raptor? It will be a lot smaller for the same $, but large enough and fast.

Is your HD working a lot while you play (red light blinking)? If yes or a bit -> buy a 2nd fast HD (if sufficient RAM). If not, but need extra storage and small/theoretical speed benefit -> buy a normal second HD. Plain no -> buy a beer?

Disclaimer: harddisks contain a set of stacked disks: so it can happen that partition E is not on the inside of disk 1 where C is, but on the outside of disk 2 -> C and E are equally fast.


Edit:

Each disk has its own set of reading and writing heads: wouldn't it be a strategy to share C over all disks first? That way there would be several reading/writing heads per partition instead of just one.


|_> http://www.storagereview.com/guide20...tActuator.html
There's only one actuator: all arms move as one synchronous unit.
So, only 1 arm is doing something really, the rest just follows while being idle.
Making more actuators will make it more complex and expensive. It said somewhere that PC HD have only one, so it could be that HD for server or special workstations have more actuators per disk.

Starting reading some now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk
Transfer Rate
Inner Zone: from 44.2 MB/sec to 74.5 MB/sec
Outer Zone: from 74.0 MB/sec to 111.4 MB/sec

If this is what I were talking about: wow.


http://www.pcdoctor-guide.com/wordpress/?p=595
OK, a few days ago I promised you a look inside a hard drive - well here is it!

No working drives were harmed in the making of this article

lol

[TosaInu]

There's a workaround for this problem.
To keep your pagefile on your main partition and avoid defragmentation
follow these steps:
1. disable the pagefile
2. reboot
3. defrag
4. reactivate the pagefile but specify its min and max to the same number
Example: min=512MB max =512MB

What you've done is to assign a certain 512MB block to your pagefile.
The physical address of this pagefile will never change.
Defragmentation due to pagefile use is now impossible.

This is a must indeed. Apart from fragmenting, Windows is just wasting resoures while managing and resizing.

[Just A Girl]

"What you've done is to assign a certain 512MB block to your pagefile.
The physical address of this pagefile will never change.
Defragmentation due to pagefile use is now impossible.
"

This is not entierly true.
Your page file Will increase from 512Mb when windows needs it to. Even if your Page file Max value and minimum value are both set to 512mb
(this is so you dont crash)
"you can see this for your self by seting page file max and minimum value to 2mb. then keeping an eye on your page file as you play Games or multi task. Windows will continue to increase the page file to higer values Even though it has been told Not to, The same affect can bee viewed when set to 512mb max and min But you will see the afects faster if you set it to 2mb"
(windows thinks it knows best)
This slows down your pc Whilst it does so.
and it also fragments your files as it gathers free space to alocate to the page file.

The only way to stop windows fragmenting files is to asign A rediculously high page file amount to windows.
So it NEVER has the Need to increase its size.

Page files should In general be kept on either a seperate hard drive. or the OS hard drive.
Try not to keep it where the games are.
Becous as windows uses the page file its using your hard disk.
and if the game and page file are being used at the same time That causes Slow down.

A Thing you should not do for sure is.
Do not have multiple page files on the same hard disk but in diferent partitions.

and as some 1 said.
Its better to have more than 10Gb space for your OS.
Updates take up space.
But the uninstall command's for the updates Take HUGE amounts of space.
(you can moove them but its best not to)
Then with hiberantion mode taking aproximatly 500Mb of space if enabled. And combine that with The Temp files, Then windows remembering your old settings, user profiles taking up 1gb + each, And the fact that windows Insists to put cd data on to your windows drive before copying it to a cd.
you will soon run out of space.

hope this helps.

EDIT.

When you come to defrag or scandisk your pc..
change your page file to 2mb max and min.
then restart.
this means theres going to be one less HUGE file for defrag to process.
And windows can then realocate the space usualy used by page file. (They havent been called swap files since windows 98)

[Papewaio]

You can have pagefiles on multiple disks... the OS will write to the fastest disk... I'm not sure if it is write speed (which includes where on the disk) or just cache/rpm of the disk... it will only write to the slower disks if their is a need.

Of course having a dedicated disk is the way to go... and try and keep all disks that are regularly written on, free space of 30% if possible.

[Just A Girl]

You can have pagefiles on multiple disks... the OS will write to the fastest disk... I'm not sure if it is write speed (which includes where on the disk) or just cache/rpm of the disk... it will only write to the slower disks if their is a need.

Of course having a dedicated disk is the way to go... and try and keep all disks that are regularly written on, free space of 30% if possible.

Theres no problem with multiple Page files on seperata Physical hard disks.
i.e
Hdd1 Ide 1. = 1 page file.
hdd 2 Ide 2 = 1 Page file.
Hdd 3 ide 1 Slave = 1 page file
Hdd 4 Ide 2 Slave = 1 paage file.

Is totaly acceptable.

But multiple page files On seperate partitions of the same physical disk is a BIG no no.

I.E

Hdd 1 Ide 1 Partitioned in to c, d, and e.
c= 1 page file
d= 1 page file
e= 1 page file.

hdd2 ide 2 partiotoned in to f g and h
f= 1 page file
g= 1 page file
h = 1 page file
Technically
Hdd 1 Ide 1 = Page file x 3
hdd2 ide 2 =page file x3
this is totaly wrong and as such. you should not do it.

[alman7272]

Everything seemingly is fixed right now. Hopefully, 10GB of space for the system will be enough seeing as I have about 5GB free space on it. Would be less if mcaffee didn't force me to install it on that partition though...

[Just A Girl]

pssssst....

for future referance.

You could have used your windows cd to boot up in to Recovery console, (so that means Bios needs to be set to 1st boot device = cd)
And formated your windows drive from there.
(not recomended)

some hard drives need there own 3rd party drivers to be insalled during xp instaltion.
xp would prompt you.

You could also use the xp cd to boot up,
(again bios needs to be set to 1st boot device = cd) then try to Install Windows xp.
You could alocate it to the new drive and install it there.
AFTER the new drive had windows installed.
You could select the new windows from the boot comands.
Then formated your origional hard disk from within windows.
(Provided you selected the correct windows install to boot up from)

The second way is the best way. safest way, and most logical way.
Becous pre sp2, XP wasnt that great at detecting HUGE hard disks.
So you realy need xp installed already to be able to install xp properly on a large drive, "I.e 200-300 Gb" or you may find out your 300gb hard disk. is detected as 100gb or something even worse.

BTW..
You select which is your 1st boot device in bios.

CD
should be your 1st device. so you can easily boot from xp cd if needed.

then hdd0, hdd1, scsi excetera As your second boot device.
hdd0 should be on ide 1. master. (should never change)
hdd1 could be on ide 1 as a slave.
or it could be on ide 2 as a master.
All depends on how you set it up.

Hope that helps next time.