Curches Celebrate Darwin's Birthday

[Proletariat]

Either God created man, or humans are evolved apes. I find it difficult to reconcile the two.

I find it difficult too, not for that reason. It's kinda cheap, but you could just blow that off by saying humans were created by God through evolution via apes.

The part that I find particularly fun is when it's argued that life is such a complicated thing it must've been created by a Higher Being. Tell that to a 12 year old in a hospitol with a rapidly mutating strain of HIV that won't react to any of our treatments.

Anyway, I'm in the medical field and in the land of the blind the one-eyed Prole is Queen. Therefore I hope they start teaching creationism in our public schools from kindergarten on.

[Xiahou]

I find it difficult too, not for that reason. It's kinda cheap, but you could just blow that off by saying humans were created by God through evolution via apes.

Well, I dont know any rational person that really thinks man evolved from apes. However, I certainly don't see the disconnect between evolution and the belief in God. It makes far more sense to me to believe that God would've laid down a framework, call it the 'big bang' or whatever, knowing it would function and grow into what we have rather than God just creating the world static, as it exist however many thousands of years ago that the fundamentalists say it was.

The part that I find particularly fun is when it's argued that life is such a complicated thing it must've been created by a Higher Being. Tell that to a 12 year old in a hospitol with a rapidly mutating strain of HIV that won't react to any of our treatments.

I dont see how any of the arguments over disease, suffering, or tragedy suggest the lack of God, but I find this argument particularly bad. Has the 12 year old directly done anything to cause himself to get HIV? Most probably not. But, the prevelance of HIV among mankind is almost certainly as a direct result of human actions- promiscuity, IV drug use, ect. To wonder why God would allow a child to get infected isnt a whole lot different than asking why God would allow a murderer's bullet to hit its victim. If one can accept that we have free will, one must also accept that our decisions will have consequences.

I guess that means Catholics aren't Christians?

According to Navaros? Certainly not. Personally, if you're going to start making a list of the "true Christian" churches, I think the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have a much better claim to it than the ones.

[Goofball]

Well, I dont know any rational person that really thinks man evolved from apes.

Really?

I know hundreds of rational people who believe man evolved from apes. Many of them are also Christians.

[Xiahou]

Really?

I know hundreds of rational people who believe man evolved from apes. Many of them are also Christians.

Oh, I doubt that.
No serious scientist would suggest man evolved from apes.

[BDC]

Oh, I doubt that.
No serious scientist would suggest man evolved from apes.

Apes and humans had a common ancestor...

Darwin was quite a religious man, initially. Until his faith was destroyed by those who insisted on taking the Bible literally over what they could see with their eyes.

An interesting other example would be Gallileo. Does anyone still believe that the Earth is the centre of the universe? Remember it too the Church 200 years to remove one of his books from the Prohibited list. He regarded himself as a really good Catholic too, and had many friends high up in the Church.

[Xiahou]

Apes and humans had a common ancestor...

Hey, somebody gets it.
I would've also accepted 'homo erectus'.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it ironically funny when so-called 'enlightened' folks try to look down on religious people for not believing that humans evolved from apes. Anyone who's looked at the issue at all realizes no one thinks that's true.

[BDC]

Hey, somebody gets it.
I would've also accepted 'homo erectus'.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it ironically funny when so-called 'enlightened' folks try to look down on religious people for not believing that humans evolved from apes. Anyone who's looked at the issue at all realizes no one thinks that's true.

Yes.

Of course Homo erectus was only a human ancestor. ;)

Although this whole species thing is a little suspect. If you traveled back in time there wouldn't be a sudden divide, where one generation suddenly couldn't have offspring with the previous. And how do you class species in asexual organisms?

[Bartix]

Maybe it's just me, but I find it ironically funny when so-called 'enlightened' folks try to look down on religious people for not believing that humans evolved from apes. Anyone who's looked at the issue at all realizes no one thinks that's true.

I thought that was straw man image of evolution created by creationists.

[Goofball]

Oh, I doubt that.
No serious scientist would suggest man evolved from apes.

Sorry, got caught in the semantic trap.



No, humans did not evolve from modern apes. But we did evolve (as did modern apes) from a creature that was so apelike in its appearance if any layman were to see one today he would refer to it as an ape.

[Xiahou]

Sorry, got caught in the semantic trap.

Hey, don't beat yourself up too bad- it couldve happened to anyone.

[Goofball]

Hey, don't beat yourself up too bad- it couldve happened to anyone.

*wishes there was a better way to send sound effects to other Org members*

pfffffffffttttt!

[Louis VI the Fat]

Hey, don't beat yourself up too bad- it couldve happened to anyone.

It took me more than a day before to figure it out too.
Nice one, Xiahou.

[Kralizec]

I dont see how any of the arguments over disease, suffering, or tragedy suggest the lack of God, but I find this argument particularly bad. Has the 12 year old directly done anything to cause himself to get HIV? Most probably not. But, the prevelance of HIV among mankind is almost certainly as a direct result of human actions- promiscuity, IV drug use, ect. To wonder why God would allow a child to get infected isnt a whole lot different than asking why God would allow a murderer's bullet to hit its victim. If one can accept that we have free will, one must also accept that our decisions will have consequences.

I think Proletariat was trying to say that it's silly to say life couldn't have been the result of evolution, while HIV viruses are so damn adaptive there's nothing we can do about it.

[Xiahou]

I think Proletariat was trying to say that it's silly to say life couldn't have been the result of evolution, while HIV viruses are so damn adaptive there's nothing we can do about it.

Perhaps I misunderstood. But I dont get the argument that viruses adapt and 'evolve' so quickly as evidence that evolution can't have divine origins either...

[Kralizec]

I wasn't trying to make that argument. I don't claim to know what caused life, but that it has since then evolved is clear to me at least.

[Tribesman]

Those mentioned in the article are Apostate Churches that have no connection to God or anything that is good.
Just out of curiosity Navaros , what exactly is the true Christian church that you follow ?
Since you say that all the others have rejected their faith then which is the one that still has the faith ?

[Navaros]

Those mentioned in the article are Apostate Churches that have no connection to God or anything that is good.
Just out of curiosity Navaros , what exactly is the true Christian church that you follow ?
Since you say that all the others have rejected their faith then which is the one that still has the faith ?

I do not associate myself with any denomination, although there are many denominations who would agree with everything I've said in this thread. In fact, any & every Bible-believing Church would agree with everything I've said in this thread. If a Church is not a Bible-believing Church, then it is nothing other than a worthless den of lies & hypocrisy and a very grievous affront to God.

Things that the Bible makes abundantly clear, such as that the Earth was made in 7 days and Adam and Eve were the first humans made directly and instantly by God's hand are indisputable for anyone calling himself a believer in the Bible. God's Word is explicit on all of these things. Anyone who would agree with warped delusions formed in the infantile minds of men (ie: apes magically turning into men over time) rather than agreeing with what the Word of God explicitly states is certainly not a legitimate follower of God or Jesus Christ.

[Redleg]

I wasn't trying to make that argument. I don't claim to know what caused life, but that it has since then evolved is clear to me at least.

That is simply put, what I believe the gest of Darwin's Theory of evolution.

[Soulforged]

Because the creationism debate has been a recurrent theme here, these churches are trying to reconcile Darwinism and creationism, and he would like people's opinions on it?

I cannot say that this makes me happy, this only goes to show that when you attack religion you only make it stronger, in one way or the other. Probably if the "designers" were the majority, there will be more atheist. Anyway, at least it shows reason.

[Proletariat]

I think Proletariat was trying to say that it's silly to say life couldn't have been the result of evolution, while HIV viruses are so damn adaptive there's nothing we can do about it.

Close, but I should've been a little more clear. I was more talking about the thought that simply because life is complex, it must've been designed by a higher intelligence. I wasn't saying that I thought evolution and the Bible were incompatible because of this (or for any reason.)

The concept of Faith usually seems to get ignored during these debates. God prolly wouldn't have placed such an emphasis on it if he expected Christians to try and find scientific evidence that he wasn't lying in the word he gave to us.

I personally don't believe in it because I have no faith in it. The whole thing sounds very unlikely to me for many reasons, but those reasons are neither the existence of complicated viruses or the evolution theory.

(Thanks for clearing up the ape thing, BDC.)

[Just A Girl]

Why do churches celebrate Darwin NOW?
Modern science is now leaning AWAY from darwins theory,
And now claim there were 3 or 4 diferent species of humans all alive at the same time.
And We did not evolve from apes as they were here at the same time as well.
(apes evolved from apes, we evolved from a species of humans. the sealacanth was the fish that linked darwins tree together, and that things still alive. it did not start walking on land its still in the sea Is still alive And above all is still Exacty the same as its 350 million year old fossils, Apart from the fact its still alive and swiming Not walking about)


Seems DUMB to accept this theory Now 1ce its being disproven...
"Is being disproven a nessecity for addition to religious circles? ."

And i see you guys are doing it again...

World was made in 7 days. "Well 6 and a day off"
you say a God day is diferent length to ours.

Then he made light (not the sun)
"We already know there were a WHOLE bunch of suns before ours came about, Guess they dint produce any light before he switched the power on or something"

Then he made adam Who lived HOW LONG???!
And god days are Thousands of years long.
(lets say 1 thousand to keep the figures down)
so thats 365.2 Thousand years old in one god year...

and with adam living almost a thousand years...
That makes him 365200000 Years old.
Either that Or the bull about god days Is just bull.

Im prety sure moses was in his 200's So no better there.
all this is with-in the new testament,
so time spans would be the equivalent of those 1st 7 days.

Its prety dumb reading.

[Viking]

Why do churches celebrate Darwin NOW?
Modern science is now leaning AWAY from darwins theory,
And now claim there were 3 or 4 diferent species of humans all alive at the same time.
And We did not evolve from apes as they were here at the same time as well.
(apes evolved from apes, we evolved from a species of humans. the sealacanth was the fish that linked darwins tree together, and that things still alive. it did not start walking on land its still in the sea Is still alive And above all is still Exacty the same as its 350 million year old fossils, Apart from the fact its still alive and swiming Not walking about)

Dude, Darwins theory said that the specie most able to respond to change, survives. The ape controversy is a consequence of that.
Darwins theories still counts.

[Redleg]

Dude, Darwins theory said that the specie most able to respond to change, survives. The ape controversy is a consequence of that.
Darwins theories still counts.

Don't worry about it Viking lots of people don't know that Darwin used selective breeding practiced on farms to prove artifical selection that breeds traits into animals for certain qualties, and that the proof of artifical selection proves natural selection as a theory is worth looking at - and as a theory is valid, and remains valid. Science will improve upon Darwin's Theory of Evolution, but as a base I don't think science nor religion will defeat the basic concept of what Darwain stated in the theory of evolution.

Many get wrapped around the axel about what they think Darwin's Theory of Evolution is about, verus looking at what the man actually stated.

Hence individuals like Navaros and it would seem Just a Girl find themselves confused about what the theory states.